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Old August 25, 2014, 05:20 PM   #1
Pond, James Pond
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TFL Dept for Education shooter's curriculum.

I recently started what has become a very interesting thread with varied opinions on the merits of point shooting.

There is also a thread on pistol stances that I have found interesting and all this got me thinking.

My situation differs greatly from most members. Where I live there is no strong gun culture. Ranges are limited as are courses. There are no SD courses that I know of.

So, as with every other aspect of shooting, or at least almost, I am having to teach myself.
Where does one begin to be self taught when one doesn't even know how much one doesn't know?!?

So here is your challenge:
I want you to design your ultimate training regimen.
  • It should be conceived with someone in mind who can only get instruction from the likes of TFL, Youtube or other blogs and practise at ranges, and IPSC comps and training venues.
  • It should be manageable, so not consisting of 300 different skills and disciplines.
  • Rather it should be comprised of anything from 5 to 10 or so of what you feel are the most valuable skills and/or drills to practise.
  • You can assume that I have access to places where I can practise moving exercises too, not just a 25m firing line.
  • You can make it into a single practice routine to do each time, or different aspects to be practised on a rotation of sorts.
  • It should be applicable to both revolvers and semis, but any really good exercises that apply to know one are fine here and there.

So what would you offer as a means of making a master from a novice?
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Old August 25, 2014, 06:52 PM   #2
raimius
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I highly recommend Paul Howe's standards at Combat Shooting and Tactics. They offer a good measure of various basic skills.

As for a program, I would stair-step from the basics.
(Pistol example)
1. Mindset
2. Basic firearms safety.
3. Accuracy from the Ready position
4. Accuracy and speed from the Ready position
5. Accuracy and speed from the holster
6. Reloads
7. Handling malfunctions
8. Transitions (Different hands, different weapons, different targets)
9. Shooting from varied positions
10. Moving and shooting (broken into Move THEN shoot, and Move AND shoot).

That should give you all the basic skills needed for IPSC/IDPA style competitions and fundamental pistol handling components of defensive shooting.

As for individual drills, the CSAT standards, "Dot torture," 5-dry/1-live for accuracy x 5, etc.
I don't think anyone has ALL the answers, so start studying from multiple sources--Paul Howe, Andy Stanford, Pat McNamara, Massad Ayoob, Cooper, etc, etc.

Last edited by raimius; August 25, 2014 at 06:59 PM.
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Old August 25, 2014, 11:30 PM   #3
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If it's actually impractical to get professional instruction then here are some suggestions.

There's a lot of decent information on the web in terms of video instruction. You can also purchase video instruction courses. I'd also get some of the better books on practical shooting and read through them.

You're going to have to assimilate a good bit of information since you don't have an instructor to rely on.

Next you'll need a video camera (and a timer) to film yourself shooting drills.

You can try critiquing yourself by watching the videos, but if you can stand the pain and abuse, post them for criticism. It won't be fun (at least not for you), but it should be productive.
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Old August 26, 2014, 12:15 AM   #4
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I do not know if there are any IDPA clubs/groups in your country.

But with a little work you can design and build your own training stages

This is a design app for designing your own: http://www.idpastagedesigner.com/

This has a number of stages that you can duplicate with a little work.
http://idpashooting.wordpress.com/idpa-stages/

You can also download the IDPA rule book if you have any questions
http://www.idpa.com/compete/rules

Hope this helps, shoot straight and stay safe.
Jim
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Old August 26, 2014, 12:46 AM   #5
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As a side note you could make your IDPA targets from cut out cardboard boxes and your target stands from scrap 2 x 4 's , you may want to order "Pasters" for covering the bullet holes.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/248...ProductFinding

And maybe one of these:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/772...ProductFinding

Jim
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Old August 26, 2014, 02:03 AM   #6
Pond, James Pond
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I like the suggestions so far, although I view the video publishing idea with some trepidation!!

I was also thinking of specific skills: often skills that I don't even know exist or have thought of, but don't know the nomenclature for.

For example, I now know of retention shooting and point shooting. I had previously seen these in action, but would not have been able to name them, nor been able to distinguish them from shooting as a whole.

Any of those?
(please include a brief description!!)
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Old August 26, 2014, 06:43 PM   #7
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The biggest problem with self-training is the lack of feedback. A video camera and someplace you could post the videos for other knowledgeable shooters to critique would be extremely helpful.

(It's no substitute for face-to-face instruction, but it's probably the best you can do in its absence.)
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Last edited by Tamara; August 26, 2014 at 06:53 PM.
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Old August 27, 2014, 03:10 AM   #8
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Quote:
(It's no substitute for face-to-face instruction, but it's probably the best you can do in its absence.)
Yeah: face-to-face destruction more like!!

OK a video is a good idea. I may have to investigate, but first that means shooting the video properly editing out the waffle before and after and then posting it. Not to mention a good make-up artist: gotta look good!

Seriously, though, what should I film?

I mean, I have one video camera, with tripod, so should it be my general shooting position from both sides?

What would give people the most to "work" with?
And what are the techniques I should try to post?
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Old August 27, 2014, 11:32 AM   #9
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Are you familiar with Double Alpha in the Netherlands?
They have lots of good info, both on their web site and from the books and videos they sell.
http://www.doublealpha.biz/
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Old August 27, 2014, 11:50 AM   #10
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I presume this is with general shooting technique and form in mind?
Definitely helpful.

Have anything similar with SD shooting in mind?
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Old August 27, 2014, 12:15 PM   #11
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I tinker with IDPA, but don't know if you can find any place local that plays that game. After asking multiple folks about dry fire drills, I couldn't seem to get anyone to clearly explain what I needed to do at home. Same thing for range drills - no clear path to follow. I took a two day course which got me started. I followed up by ordering defensive handgun training manual and videos which I've found were helpful for me.

http://shooting-performance.com/

You can watch some videos online and determine if this style of training suits you. Not sure if the materials are available across the pond. Maybe Amazon will send a drone over to drop off the materials.
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Old August 27, 2014, 12:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
I tinker with IDPA,
You're in Germany and do IDPA?

I thought that IPSC was king in Europe as far as shooting sports go. Interesting, although in Estonia, I think IPSC is the only choice of that nature. I could investigate further.
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Old August 27, 2014, 12:35 PM   #13
g.willikers
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Look on the left menu for First Person Defender for about a dozen SD scenarios.
These kinds of examples, coupled with shooting and gun handling info from the competition folks make a good combination.

http://guntalk.tv/gtv/library.php?ca...ight%20Time%29
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Old August 27, 2014, 01:12 PM   #14
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IDPA, IPSC, anything that involves shooting targets, moving, and decision-making under the pressure of the clock and people watching is going to add to your skills.

Don't buy into that "Oh, IPSC is just for gaming." Shooting at targets fast and accurately is shooting at targets fast and accurately.
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Old August 27, 2014, 01:46 PM   #15
Pond, James Pond
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Quote:
Look on the left menu for First Person Defender for about a dozen SD scenarios.
These kinds of examples, coupled with shooting and gun handling info from the competition folks make a good combination.
Great link. Thanks!!

Quote:
Don't buy into that "Oh, IPSC is just for gaming."
I have read that sort of attitude before and, no, I don't agree with it either. It may not be simunitions, but it has worth.
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Old August 27, 2014, 02:28 PM   #16
serf 'rett
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James,

Stuttgart, ARKANSAS, USA. Some of the first folks here came from Germany. A few miles from us, we have Ulm, Arkansas. Sorry for the confusing tag. Your opening post stated you were interested in a

Quote:
training regimen
The Shooting Performance is a training program, which is why I listed it. I saw my IDPA scores improve within a few weeks of starting some of the drills.

There are other programs, but others will need to tell you about the ones they like (or dislike).
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Old August 27, 2014, 03:09 PM   #17
Pond, James Pond
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Quote:
Stuttgart, ARKANSAS, USA.
Ahhh!
That is altogether a bit further away...

All the same, the link will be useful. Thanks.
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Old August 27, 2014, 06:59 PM   #18
Jim243
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Pond,

Not sure if this will help, I don't understand a word of it.

Jim

Quote:
Dobrqj den!

Ljudi vot ho4u pointeresovatsja Vawqm mneniem. K koncu goda ja budu na4inat razvivat u nas v strane takuju disziplinu kak IDPA. Eto prakti4eski toze samoe, no po-moemu mneniju IDPA bolee interesnaja t.k priblizena bolee k ralnosti. IPSC kone4no horowo, NO vseze eto sport.
Vot hotel pointeresovatsja kogo-nibud interesuet eta tema? Esli da to prowu mne dat znat na email Jevgeni@europe.com ...
Idpa.Estonia

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Try this

http://www.idpa-shooting.lt/

Jim

or how far are you from Kaunas, or they may know of some activity in Estonia.


Quote:
Match information:
Match date&time: September, 14 (start at 10:30 AM)
Match location: Kaunas, Lithuania.
Shooting range: Malūno g. 25, Padubysio k., Seredžiaus sen., Jurbarko r., shooting range of “Tactical training center” Safety Service (~50 km from Kaunas, 150 km from Vilnius center)
GPS coordinates: 55° 6′20.97″N 23°26′20.36″E ( 55.105824° 23.438988°)
Match organizer: Defensive Shooting Club „IDPA.LT“
Match director: Andrej Lipa
Chief SO: Valentin Miliajev
Match tier – 2
Number of stages: 12
Minimum rounds: 180
Match fee: 120 LTL (35 EUR, 50 USD), lunch included
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Old August 27, 2014, 09:46 PM   #19
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Quote:
So what would you offer as a means of making a master from a novice?
These are not really good metrics. You should come up with some realistic, achievable goals and focus on those instead of some indeterminate, qualitative identifier.

What do you want to be able to do?
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Old August 28, 2014, 02:39 AM   #20
Pond, James Pond
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Quote:
Pond,

Not sure if this will help, I don't understand a word of it.

Jim
That looks like Russian written phonetically in the Latin alphabet, so I sympathise: I don't understand it either!!

Kaunas is about 400 miles away, so a bit far. It does mean that there might be a development for IDPA in the region.

Quote:
What do you want to be able to do?
I want to be able to shoot well, with good technique and form.

I want to broaden my options in relation to possible SD situations beyond "OMG! OMG! There's someone in my flat! What do I do?! What do I do?!"

So, I can then use my newly competent shooting technique in different ways: point-, retention-, righthanded-, lefthanded-, shooting, shooting from cover etc.
Things I can think of, some that I can't, but already developed by others. I want to benefit from their wisdom and research.
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Old August 28, 2014, 01:13 PM   #21
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Don't know if this would help any, but USPSA might be found somewhere closer to you. I do know that there are clubs in Poland. But again, if travel is limited, it may be too far anyways. I could ask if there is any instruction that may be available there if you wish. Wife's cousin is a police officer and maybe he might know something about it. But maybe not. Kinda a rough area to find this kind of stuff. Good luck.
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Old August 28, 2014, 01:52 PM   #22
Pond, James Pond
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'Fraid so!!

Poland is a full day's drive away!! The good news is that these things travel and so if different disciplines are around i Europe it may be that they will establish themselves here too. It just takes time.
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Old August 28, 2014, 01:59 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robk
Don't know if this would help any, but USPSA might be found somewhere closer to you....
I think you mean to say that an organization affiliated with IPSC (International Practical Shooting Confederation). USPSA (United States Practical Shooting Association) is the U. S. affiliate of IPSC.
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Old August 28, 2014, 02:16 PM   #24
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Sorry , I stand corrected. Info was looked up a while back. But if you look up the USPSA website, you can get to the desired information on where they have clubs thoughout the world.
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Old August 28, 2014, 04:49 PM   #25
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Pond, it's a pretty cheap and easy matter to set up your own indoor dry-fire range.
-Download 1/3 scale IDPA targets. They print on letter-size paper. They turn shooting distances from yards to feet automatically. Or in your case, meters become 1/3 meters.
-Download a shot timer to your smart phone if you have one. I use IPSC Shot Timer and put it in Par mode. (Dry fire isn't loud enough to distinguish the clicks as shots.)
-Get a Laserlyte

With the above, you can run any scenerio you come up with in your house. Video and time yourself and start by self critiquing: Was I smooth? Did my grip look like that Expert shooter's? Did I lean back when I fired? Etc.
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