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Old August 22, 2014, 05:34 PM   #26
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Join Date: July 10, 1999
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I started out with that same kit and though ultimately have swapped out/upgraded a number of pieces
Funny, I started out with a cheaper Lee Single stage kit, and eventually upgraded to essentially the equipment in the RCBS Kit, just I did it piece by piece, and ended up spending quite a bit more....
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Old August 23, 2014, 01:22 PM   #27
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Quality hearing protection helps with flinching. With medium or lower power rifles more people flinch in anticipation of the noise rather than recoil.
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Old August 23, 2014, 10:19 PM   #28
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I recommend attending an Appleseed shoot, you will be amazed at what you learn.
Your Mileage Obviously Varies
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Old August 24, 2014, 02:42 PM   #29
Join Date: February 6, 2012
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I my experience trying to learn long range shooting is the only good piece of gear you need at first is a good scope and mounts. Save your pennies and buy the best scope you can afford. The rule of thumb is your scope should be at least the price of your gun. So if you are eventually going to upgrade...

Secondly, I found you can research shooting for hours and days but the best use of your time is on the range. Practice, practice, practice!

Thirdly, the best money I've spent is Magpul's DVD set "the Art of the Rifle." It has a ton of information from the fundamentals of pulling the trigger, use of ballistic calculators, reading the wind, to what kind of gear to really need.
It's available on Amazon. Highly recommended!

Have fun! It's a hobby with a lot of depth.
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Old August 24, 2014, 05:38 PM   #30
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What I learned:
* I need to improve flinching
If you're flinching from a 223 I've got to ask about your hearing protection because it shouldn't be from recoil.
* I need to remember to use breathing control
Yep. Practice it till it becomes habit.
* Moving closer to the eye piece makes the target seem a lot bigger
Moving your eye to the right position makes it easier to see the target. There is a point of diminishing returns in getting closer. This will be painfully reinforced if you're shooting a rifle that actually kicks.
* I am ready to move up to 200yd.
No, not really. I'm going to try to say this as nicely as possible, but if you are shooting 4-5 inch groups from a rest at 100 yards there's some fundamental work to be done before you make things more challenging.

I'd recommend that you get a good 22 bolt action and practice shooting at 25 yards until you get good at it, then move out to 50 yards. Even at today's prices it's still cheaper than centerfire and recoil and noise are non-issues. At 50 yards you should be shooting groups you can cover with a quarter. Then work on it till you can cover them with a nickel. Then you can go back to shooting centerfires.

BTW, as much as I hate see-through rings, they may be necessary because that thumbhole stock appears to have very little drop and a ring that high may be required.
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Old August 24, 2014, 08:12 PM   #31
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Here is the best advice I can give you to help shoot the best groups your rifle is capable of.

As many have said, "dry fire". While dry firing in the house can help trigger control it is not the best practice. Set up your bench, rest & target just like the real thing. I suggest the target be at 100yds. Dry fire using a snap cap or dummy round with a fired primer. Center the crosshairs on target & dry fire. Keep your eye opened & practice, practice, practice until the crosshairs do not change position AFTER the shot. Experiment because all of the things suggested in this thread can be detected by this exercise. Things like is your bench steady, is your rest good enough, is your cheek weld good, is your technique good, etc. Sounds simple but is very difficult to achieve. If you can learn to keep your eye(s) open after the firing pin falls you'll go a long way to cure/avoid a flinch. This dry/fire & watch technique is easier to do with a higher power scope.

You can buy first rate equipment & ammo but you can't buy technique. Just like a winning race car, all things must be running to perfection, including the driver & how he performs.

By all means, once you start shooting well try some longer range groups. I assure you it will be quite sobering & eye opening. I had an epiphany the first time I shot some 400 yd groups with my hunting rifle!

Good luck & welcome to the point where shooting becomes an accuracy addiction!

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Old August 25, 2014, 03:36 AM   #32
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but you can't buy technique. Just like a winning race car, all things must be running to perfection, including the driver & how he performs.
That is the true secret to shooting good (small) groups regardless of distance.

First thing to learn is breathing, yes I know you do it all the time, but we are talking about controlling it while setting up for the shot and while pulling the trigger. Take in a deep breath and blow it out, do that two times, on the third time when you exhale hold your breath then slowly squeeze the trigger all the way back and hold it there until the bullet has exited the rifle. Then you can start breathing again.

The next thing to lean is "DO NOT USE YOUR LEFT HAND ON THE RIFLE". I set the front of the rifle on a set of sand bags or a rest. My left hand (I am right handed) is placed under my right hand to steady it and help keep the sights (Scope) on the center of the target.

The third thing is that "EVERY SHOT IS YOUR FIRST SHOT." Worrying where the previous shot went won't help you since your next shot has to be the same as previous one "YOUR FIRST SHOT". Do not look where it went, you will view them all after you have taken your fifth shot. Looking does not change anything from before.

The forth thing is that at 100 yards you do not need to worry about the wind, but shooting out farther than 200 yards you need to see if conditions have changed and adjust accordingly.

The last and final thing is to allow your rifle to do it's thing. Don't try to over power it, don't try to make it shoot to a different point of aim, just let it do it's job as you must do your job. What is that, control your breathing, keep the sights (Scope) on the center of the target, and squeeze the trigger don't pull it.

If these things are done and done properly your results will be amazing. So just have fun. Worrying raises the blood pressure which tightens muscles which makes you do things that you shouldn't. Just relax and have fun.

You will get these results:

Five shot group, where the fifth bullet went is anybodies guess but it is some where in that group.

Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Old August 25, 2014, 06:59 PM   #33
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My best 5-shot group at 100yds. .532" from edge to edge, subtract bullet diameter of .308 and end up with .224" group. At least that's how I think you measure the group...? Shot with a rifle I never should have sold, Savage 12FV chambered in .308. 26 inch heavy barrel in a Choate "Ultimate Sniper" stock, using a Barska 6-24x50 (I was a little younger and less wise to quality scopes).
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson, 1776
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