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Old August 10, 2014, 12:53 AM   #26
N R A
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Gun sales on everything is slowing down. Every bed only needs so many guns under it.

Gun broker is also being descovered by the end retail customer and shipping the gun to a 10 dollar pick up dealer.

I just got this a couple weeks ago.

Star PD. Clean ones are rare.

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Old August 10, 2014, 03:55 AM   #27
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Not sure if my situation is common, but I have always planned to buy a 1911 "one day." I plan to spend a decent amount of money on a product from a high-end manufacturer with a strong reputation when I finally make the purchase. Unfortunately for Colt, the current market has made it so that many of the other guns that have been lingering on my wish list are now in-stock at fire sale prices at every LGS in town. I have a hard time getting to $900 spare dollars in the budget when so many other guns, that spent the last two years on a neverending backorder, are now available below $500.
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Old August 10, 2014, 08:32 AM   #28
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As I'm sure it was said before me, "1911" is not a brand so you can't really say "1911 sales are slow". However, over the past 6 months, I have talked to a lot of people at work and in my neighborhood who are buying their first guns. Nearly all of them are buying or bought M&P's or Glocks, with the occasional HK and revolver thrown in for good measure. None of those first time buyer mentioned 1911's. Of course that has more to do with marketing, caliber, friends, salesmen than it does 1911's.
Let's face it, a 1911 is not a very good first gun. In fact, no handgun is. If you are green about gun handling it's all too easy to point a handgun in an unsafe direction.

A glock as a 1st gun scares the heck out of me as well, an accidental discharge waiting to happen in the hands of a neophyte. At least they are easier to break down and clean than a 1911 though.
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Old August 10, 2014, 05:27 PM   #29
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What's this about a 1911 being "not good for a first gun"? I must have really screwed up because the first handgun I bought and shot was a 1911. I found it easy to learn to shoot and to maintain. Heck, it's even fun to clean. So I have five 1911s now.

I figured any gun that was designed for some green-horn city boy who never even saw a semi-auto pistol before take it to fight in a war couldn't be all that difficult for me to learn.

What I learned from my 1911 has helped me better appreciate the design, operation and maintenance of my other guns like my Sig Sauer, Glock and others.

Well, that may just be my experience for what it's worth
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Old August 11, 2014, 04:27 PM   #30
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Gun sales go up and gun sales go down. They aren't going to be down forever.

If 1911 sales are down then that is a good thing. I shoot my 1911 competitively but rarely recommend one to a friend. The last thing the gun community needs is another person buying another gun that they can't afford to shoot. In real life I tell almost everyone the same thing, it's not what you shoot, it's what you hit.

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ive seen in my area that most handgun sales are from those new to the game, not those already well practiced.
This is very true. Virtually all experienced shooters tend to stick with a few gun for a long period of time.

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I would bet that the proliferation of 1911s, with the attached mixed reviews, makes it a difficult choice for consumers. Name any brand and you'll alternately hear that it is the next thing sliced bread or a glass fragile MIM jam-o-matic.

If I had a choice of either a $1200 Kimber or a $300 Armscor to defend my life, I don't know which one I'd pick. That's a confusing marketplace.
That's the crux of the internet, where everyone has unlimited access to information but sometimes no experience to go with it. People literally buy guns and then immediately review them. Compare that with how many people are coming back and reviewing them after 10k rounds when they have truly learned the ins and outs of the gun.

Combine that with the propensity of newer shooters to fall into the "Brand X rocks while Brand Y sucks" trap and you literally have the blind leading the blind.


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Let's face it, a 1911 is not a very good first gun. In fact, no handgun is. If you are green about gun handling it's all too easy to point a handgun in an unsafe direction.
All guns are easy to point in a unsafe direction. Just because a handgun is easier to point at yourself doesn't make it any more dangerous. An unsafe direction is an unsafe direction. 1911s (and glocks) are just as good beginner gun as any other. If someone is willing to learn gun safety they will be fine. If someone isn't willing to learn gun safety eventually an accident will happen.
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Last edited by Adamantium; August 11, 2014 at 04:50 PM.
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Old August 11, 2014, 05:31 PM   #31
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I just received an e-mail blast fro the NSSF, with a graph. If the graph will carry over, I'll post it. Basically, the NSSF (which is the industry trade association) says 2013 was an abnormally high sales year, so even though sales this year are on track with sales for 2012, it looks like a "decline" -- until you look at the ten-year trend.

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Old August 11, 2014, 09:43 PM   #32
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If the bubble is bursting, now is a good time to shop for bargins!

"Panic" prices have kept me from the gunstore. I am not willing to pay $850 for a pistol that was going for $650 the year before.
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Old August 11, 2014, 11:30 PM   #33
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surprised

The whole "1911" phenomenon continues to amaze me....period. Who ever would have thought that a 100 yr old design, in the face of new poly wonder pistols, would have all the "new" mfg's that are in the market,....Ruger, Rem, Rock Island, Smith, Sig, ......I stay astonished.

Hey I like the 1911....but I'm still surprised.

What I am seeing the most are the affordable Rock Island guns at the public range near me, and now and again at the club.
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Old August 11, 2014, 11:36 PM   #34
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It's vacation time. ALL gun sales are slow right now.
This is a pretty good point. The cost of going away for a long weekend is as much as some peoples gun budgets for the entire year. When you just spent a boatload of cash on hotels, restaurants, and all the other touristy stuff, the last thing most people are about to do is go drop another grand on a new gun.
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Old August 12, 2014, 03:44 PM   #35
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When someone is learning gun safety and they carelessly start to move a long gun in a 90° arc, the instructor can grab it and keep it pointed down range. That doesn't work with a handgun.
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Old August 12, 2014, 05:55 PM   #36
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Sig had to have done pretty well a few months ago when they did their buy a 1911, get the 22lr one free. A couple of my buddies got drawn into that. They make a pretty nice 1911 and the 22 isn't awful, especially for free.

In general, I'm pretty sure gun sales are down from a couple years ago, but still on an upward trend when looked at from a larger scale, like that of an entire decade or two.

Edit: Ah, I see Aguila Blanca has conveniently posted a graph showing this.
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Old August 12, 2014, 05:58 PM   #37
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Why doesn't that work with a handgun? An attentive instructor paying attention would have no problem with that. My dad taught me to shoot on handguns, one being a tiny Beretta with a 2" barrel, and was instantly on me if my barrel wandered.
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Old August 12, 2014, 09:43 PM   #38
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When someone is learning gun safety and they carelessly start to move a long gun in a 90° arc, the instructor can grab it and keep it pointed down range. That doesn't work with a handgun.
Yes they can. You're literally the first person I've seen suggest that an instructor can't take control of a situation because a student is using a handgun.
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Old August 13, 2014, 10:14 AM   #39
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Wow!

I just posted one local gun shop's experience, and asked if things were the same in your areas... wasn't trying to imply his shop reflects the rest of the world.
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Old August 13, 2014, 10:24 AM   #40
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I don't see any decline in sales.
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Old August 14, 2014, 07:57 PM   #41
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Slow Sales:

The Gun Shops here in Central Indiana tell me sales are slow right now. Yes, it is vacation time, but who can afford a vacation? Oh, I forgot Our President and our Congressmen; a months vacation at that. God Bless their pea-pickin hearts since they work so hard (at campaigning that is).
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Old August 15, 2014, 04:47 PM   #42
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It has slowed down for all platforms. But if you don't reload, shooting .45 gets expensive really quick.
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Old August 16, 2014, 05:10 PM   #43
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In my area there is more inventory of both handguns and long guns now than what there has been in a long time. Either production is up (doubtful) or demand is down. I shop regularly at LGS, Academy, Bass Pro and Cabelas, and see more selection available now than at any time in the past two years. Same for ammo.
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Old August 16, 2014, 09:30 PM   #44
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1911s are not a novice's gun, though some novices buy them just the same.
???

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What's this about a 1911 being "not good for a first gun"? I must have really screwed up because the first handgun I bought and shot was a 1911. I found it easy to learn to shoot and to maintain. Heck, it's even fun to clean. So I have five 1911s now.
That reflects my experience. The first handgun I purchased for me was a RIA GI 1911. I shot it like I stole it, never had a failure (even with HP ammo), and I eventually got to the point that I could out-shoot most people I encountered with that gun. That was back when I could get a 100 round box of WWB for 20 bucks. I eventually sold it, missed it, got a Springfield GI. It was about as reliable, accurate, and easy to maintain as the RIA. Fit & finish was maybe a little better... but essentially the same gun. I sold the Springfield (times were tight), and now I am 1911-less. I hate it. I want another one. Bad...


With all this being said, I understand disassembly is a little different than almost all other modern firearms. Still, it's not rocket science.
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Old August 17, 2014, 10:50 AM   #45
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I love how everyone says THE 1911 IS JUST NOT A GOOD FIRST HANDGUN How many millions of U.S. GIs has had the 1911 for a first time handgun and for sure it was most of thems first time to hold an auto pistol in the World War area
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Old August 18, 2014, 04:25 AM   #46
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You don't think it would be easier to train greenhorns to shoot and disassemble and clean a Beretta than a 1911?

"but there wasn't a Beretta in WW1 & 2"

No, and there wasn't a 1911 in the civil war either.
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Old August 18, 2014, 08:36 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by kcub
You don't think it would be easier to train greenhorns to shoot and disassemble and clean a Beretta than a 1911?
No.

YMMV.
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Old August 18, 2014, 09:28 AM   #48
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Summer slow down. I still see the higher end guns selling, or being on order. Same goes for "other" featured guns, 9mm, threaded barrel etc.

Mid range guns seem to really be filling up in the cases in stores I visit; If I had to guess the multi 1911 owner typically keeps moving up in price point, so how many 700-900 1911's can a shop sell in a year?
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Old August 20, 2014, 01:21 AM   #49
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Despite gun sales being down i have yet to find a cz 75 SP01 anywhere. So there is that.

For me personally i would want to start out with a colt or Dan Wesson valor. Though when i make the jump to a 1911 i'll likely go get a caspian slide & frame and have it done the way i want it done the first time around.
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Old August 20, 2014, 01:28 AM   #50
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You don't think it would be easier to train greenhorns to shoot and disassemble and clean a Beretta than a 1911?
When I took my first Beretta 92 in for repair when I was working in the 80s, I can still remember thinking to myself how much I would like to be a fly on the wall when the first military armorer had to work on a Beretta.
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Last edited by gyvel; August 22, 2014 at 06:36 PM.
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