The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > General Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 27, 2014, 10:31 PM   #26
Vanya
Staff
 
Join Date: July 7, 2008
Location: Upper midwest
Posts: 4,401
Quote:
Typically situations play out like so,

Boss to media- "They acted vigilantly. They acted bravely."

Boss to Hero- "Thank you for saving everyones life. However, this is a gun free workplace. We have to let you go."
Glockstar, I'm curious -- can you cite any actual instances in which this happened?
__________________
"Once the writer in every individual comes to life (and that time is not far off), we are in for an age of universal deafness and lack of understanding."
(Milan Kundera, Book of Laughter and Forgetting, 1980)
Vanya is offline  
Old July 27, 2014, 11:48 PM   #27
kilimanjaro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2009
Posts: 2,364
I've heard of some store clerks and delivery folks who have been let go after thwarting a robbery or assault, can't cite a place or time, may be apocryphal.

Part of me says, "I hope the hospital fires him", thusly creating a national revulsion against stupid gun policies, but he should keep his job if he still wants it, says the other part of me.
kilimanjaro is offline  
Old July 28, 2014, 07:20 AM   #28
Gary L. Griffiths
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2000
Location: AZ, IA, WA
Posts: 1,323
Quote:
Boss to Hero- "Thank you for saving everyones life. However, this is a gun free workplace. We have to let you go."
Apparently not, in this instance:

http://gunssavelives.net/blog/doctor...d-by-hospital/

Color me optimistic, but this could be a turn-around for some corporate "wisdom" on firearms.
__________________
Violence is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and valorous feeling which believes that nothing is worth violence is much worse. Those who have nothing for which they are willing to fight; nothing they care about more than their own personal safety; are miserable creatures who have no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of those better than themselves. Gary L. Griffiths, Chief Instructor, Advanced Force Tactics, Inc. (Paraphrasing John Stuart Mill)
Gary L. Griffiths is offline  
Old July 29, 2014, 04:40 PM   #29
Glockstar .40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2012
Location: West of the Rockies
Posts: 410
Quote:
Glockstar, I'm curious -- can you cite any actual instances in which this happened?
Vanya sure here ya go. Havent shopped at autozone since.

www.theblaze.com/.../autozone-employee-and-veteran-fired-fo.
__________________
He alone is my Rock and my Salvation, my Stronghold; I shall not be shaken!
Glockstar .40 is offline  
Old August 1, 2014, 01:43 PM   #30
GM1967
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 5, 2010
Location: Delaware - formerly NJ
Posts: 244
If the doctor does get into any trouble with the hospital over this incident, he should preface every response he makes with this phrase:

"If I had followed the policy, I would be dead now, and most likely so would a lot of other innocent people."

He should reiterate that every time he answer one of their questions, and every time he answers a question from the media. Over and over.

Enough repetition, and it might get through some thick heads.
GM1967 is offline  
Old August 1, 2014, 02:27 PM   #31
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 5,881
The hospital already released a statement saying they were happily awaiting his return to practice. So it looks like he will do OK there.

In addition, it appears he pulled off the whole thing with a Seecamp .32 that he pulled after the bad guy grazed the side of his head with a round. Some good nerves there.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old August 2, 2014, 09:09 AM   #32
steve4102
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,519
If he is allowed to remain, I wonder if the Hospital will let him continue to carry his firearm against Policy?
steve4102 is offline  
Old August 2, 2014, 11:41 AM   #33
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague County, T
Posts: 10,813
I hope the hospital changes its policy...and as noted, that other businesses do as well.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Double Naught Spy is offline  
Old August 2, 2014, 01:06 PM   #34
steve4102
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
I hope the hospital changes its policy...and as noted, that other businesses do as well.
OH, they will change something, that's a given. Odds are it will be just the opposite of what you hope for.

My guess is Metal detectors and increased security to start, then on to possible random searches of Office space and personal belongings.
steve4102 is offline  
Old August 5, 2014, 11:18 AM   #35
Glockstar .40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2012
Location: West of the Rockies
Posts: 410
Quote:
H, they will change something, that's a given. Odds are it will be just the opposite of what you hope for.

My guess is Metal detectors and increased security to start, then on to possible random searches of Office space and personal belongings.
Unfortunately this probably will be the case
__________________
He alone is my Rock and my Salvation, my Stronghold; I shall not be shaken!
Glockstar .40 is offline  
Old August 5, 2014, 08:28 PM   #36
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague County, T
Posts: 10,813
Quote:
OH, they will change something, that's a given. Odds are it will be just the opposite of what you hope for.
They didn't fire the guy, so already things are better than I hoped. From a policy standpoint, they probably should have fired him. He did knowingly break the rules and did so for an extended period of time. That they didn't fire him is very positive.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Double Naught Spy is offline  
Old August 6, 2014, 12:12 PM   #37
BobCat45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 18, 2004
Location: East Bernard, TX
Posts: 245
I keep watching this thread for updates and every time I click on it, I remember the quote from the news report to the effect that the hospital was reviewing their security procedures and policies. It sounded almost as if they were going to revise their "no-guns" policy to "no guns unless you have a carry license" - but wishful thinking only works in children's stories...
__________________
Retractable claws - the *original* concealed carry

http://www.bayourifles.org
TinyURL.com/qgdojvh
BobCat45 is offline  
Old October 9, 2014, 03:19 PM   #38
steve4102
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Blozinski
The county DA's name is Whelan:
"As for Silverman, Whelan said that he believed it was the doctor's practice to carry a gun for self-protection and that he was in compliance with all state laws."
Was he?

According to PA law.

5122. Weapons or implements for escape.
(a) Offenses defined.--
(1) A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if he unlawfully introduces within a detention facility, correctional institution or mental hospital, or unlawfully provides an inmate thereof with any weapon, tool, implement, or other thing which may be used for escape.


Was this Doctor in violation of State Law as well as Company Policy as he carried his firearm into a "mental Hospital"?

Is this case similar to the guy in Texas that just killed two bad guys in a Bar. Texas law states it is Illegal to carry in a bar, PA law says it's illegal to carry in a Mental Hospital, is there a difference?
steve4102 is offline  
Old October 9, 2014, 03:50 PM   #39
ChuckS
Member
 
Join Date: March 4, 2009
Location: Albion, PA
Posts: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve4102
Was this Doctor in violation of State Law as well as Company Policy ......as he carried his firearm into a "mental Hospital"?
If you do a quick web search you will find a couple of dozen hospitals listed as mental hospitals in PA. The hospital he was in is not described as one of them.

Many hospitals may have a mental health or behavior health wards but are not "mental hospitals."

The definition of "mental" hospital is important.

So no, he was not in violation of state law.
ChuckS is offline  
Old January 20, 2015, 02:14 PM   #40
Notanotherstatistic
Member
 
Join Date: January 11, 2015
Posts: 17
Response to Vanya.

http://m.wmur.com/news/clerk-fired-a...obber/22454840

http://www.today.com/id/44483817/ns/...armacist-sues/

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes...d-robbery.html

Happens more than you might think. I should ask: would the mods have issue with a corporate "calling out"?

I'll just start alphabetically. Hmm, this topic is thread worthy if it doesn't already exist...
Autozone
Shell
Walgreens

Please feel free to add to the list. It just may influence how some of us spend our money. Not that I'm calling for anything like that. Just good to be an educated consumer.
Notanotherstatistic is offline  
Old January 20, 2015, 02:45 PM   #41
Frank Ettin
Staff
 
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 7,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Notanotherstatistic

Response to Vanya...
Nope, you did not respond to Vanya's question. see post 26:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanya
Quote:
Typically situations play out like so,

Boss to media- "They acted vigilantly. They acted bravely."

Boss to Hero- "Thank you for saving everyones life. However, this is a gun free workplace. We have to let you go."
Glockstar, I'm curious -- can you cite any actual instances in which this happened?
Vanya has asked for documentation of a very specific set of facts: (1) company publicly praises the employee for his defensive actions; and (2) company fires the employee for violation of company policy.

You cite examples only of the employee being fired.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper
Frank Ettin is offline  
Old January 20, 2015, 04:50 PM   #42
jmhyer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 19, 2012
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 325
Well, since this old thread has now been resurrected, I will say this:
Just because the doctor was working in the hospital, that doesn't mean he was an employee of the hospital. While the landscape is changing, historically, doctors are either self employed or work for/with a group of doctors and simply have privileges to work in/admit patients to hospitals. You obviously cannot fire someone who is not your employee. Therefore, he may, by law, only have been able to be treated as a visitor that violated the weapons policy of the building he was in...at most (in most states) a misdemeanor charge.
jmhyer is offline  
Old January 20, 2015, 08:39 PM   #43
Dashunde
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 22, 2004
Posts: 1,914
The link to the hospital's policy doesnt work anymore... but here it is:
http://www.mercyhealth.org/about/ven...de-of-conduct/

It says "vendors". I'm guessing he was some form of contractor?

This case is really a boon for us.. CC saves the days for most, and "no firearms" policies shown to be utterly useless.
Dashunde is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2015 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11581 seconds with 9 queries