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Old July 31, 2014, 09:07 PM   #51
reynolds357
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I saw a special where they tested the rifle in a re-creation of the Kennedy assassination. The experts were amazed at its accuracy. Guess Oswald got a bargain at $19.88 with the scope. The same catalog had the m-1 carbine in it for $79. Wish I had a few hundred of them at that price.

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Old July 31, 2014, 09:20 PM   #52
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Obviously they did not have any concerns about the use of the rifle in civilian hands 70 years after a losing war and civilian shooter's difficulty of reloading for the thing.
LOL!! The 6.5 Carcano was initiated ca. 1891, long before the 6.5 Swedish, 6.5 Jap, the 6.5 Mannlicher, and even the 6mm Lee Navy. In it's day, it was cutting edge technology. Why later developers chose to pursue a slightly smaller diameter bullet is lost to history, but the fact remains that the 6.5 Carcano was the pioneer of small bore smokeless cartridges.
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Old July 31, 2014, 10:38 PM   #53
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um... not really...
6.5 swede was invented in 1894, 3 years after the carcano.
6.5x54 mannlicher, also invented 1894
6.5x50 japanese 1897, 6 years after the carcano.
6mm lee navy, 1895
7x57, 1892

I would hardly call that LONG before anyone else. true they were the first. however in the case of 7.35... they were far from the first.
7.62x54R was invented 1891.
30-06, obviously, 1906
303 brit, 1888
7.65x53 1889.
7.5 swiss 1889
7.5 french 1929
one would wonder why they continued to not use standardized bullet diameters.
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Old August 1, 2014, 01:22 AM   #54
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3 years or 6 years, the fact remains that the 6.5 Carcano was the vanguard for small bore cartridges.

And, regarding the .303 British, it was first loaded as a black powder cartridge, hardly a step forward.
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Old August 1, 2014, 07:49 PM   #55
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The fact that the Carcanos you have seen and deem all "junk" due to well-used wood, et. al. would tell me that these guns have had a long and very hard service life. Hardly the hallmark of a POS.
And yet the 'cream' of the WWII-era bolt rifles, the (unissued) Swedes and K31, saw no service if I am not mistaken . Things that make you wonder...

I personally ponder whether or not a lot of these 'odd' gun types that are so maligned in the states are such because of poor ammo selection. By which I mean that people shot 'standard' size bullets of approximately the right size from rifles ill suited to them for lack of any other projectiles. If you have a .312 bore and nothing but .308 bullets to play with, and little to no scientific background to fall back on (which Bubba does not have), you might well conclude the cartridge is inherently inaccurate

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one would wonder why they continued to not use standardized bullet diameters.
Because they already had massive state-run/licensed factories producing umpteen millions of rounds. Why didn't we get with the (eventual) program and adopt 276 Pedersen, or at the very least, full power 30-06 for WWII? Logisitics.

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would hardly call that LONG before anyone else. true they were the first.
A few years of nation-level ballistics development and industrial espionage is more than enough time to perfect and optimize a break-through tech as simple as a small-bore bottleneck cartridge. During that smokeless transition period, things were moving really fast, so it's not surprising that something as brilliant as 6.5x55 would be developed through refinement but a few years later.

As far as 7.5x55; I'm convinced there was alien intervention involved in its development, since it was one of the earliest cartridges of its class, and has remained for 115 years very close to an optimum design for slinging a 30cal projectile of that class. To be fair, 7.5 Swiss was not perfected until 1911 when it became fully smokeless. I suspect the Italians were as late to the game as they were because they had more recently upgraded their ammo selection with the 6.5; 40 years isn't exactly out of the ordinary for a cartridge choice that doesn't have anything inherently wrong with it (even if it might not be the 'optimum' design solution) --just look at 30-06 and 45acp

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Old August 1, 2014, 09:58 PM   #56
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The fact that the Carcanos you have seen and deem all "junk" due to well-used wood, et. al. would tell me that these guns have had a long and very hard service life. Hardly the hallmark of a POS.
um, Mosin nagants, Springfields, Enfields, Arisakas, Mausers... all saw long service lives and VERY hard combat use, none are as bad as the carcano, seems to me like a hallmark of bad wood to me, but that's just me. they were improperly stored, drying out either in a million hunter's closets or in italian storage warehouses, doesn't matter the wood is junk at this point, right now.
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Because they already had massive state-run/licensed factories producing umpteen millions of rounds. Why didn't we get with the (eventual) program and adopt 276 Pedersen, or at the very least, full power 30-06 for WWII? Logisitics.
I was talking about when Italy decided to replace the 6.5 with a 30 caliber and went with a bullet that only italy would ever go on to use.
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Old August 2, 2014, 07:58 AM   #57
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Really, the "non-standard" diameter is a foolish argument. It was standard for Italy, and the Italians really couldn't care less if it makes it attractive to reloaders in 2014.
The fact is, the 6.5 Carcano is an excellent, well balanced cartridge. If it were invented today and put into a modern semiauto rifle, the combination would rock.
Really, what made me buy and shoot a Carcano cavalry carbine, was the book "Testing The War Weapons" by Timothy Mullins.
In it, mullens shoots and evaluates a multitude of firearms and discusses them from the standpoint of the soldier.
The Carcano carbine surprised Mullins with its ease of use...he concludes that the little Carcano would be his first choice in a bolt action fighting carbine.
After shooting the one I owned, I had to agree. Previously, I would have said the Enfield No.5 I owned for a while.
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Old August 2, 2014, 04:25 PM   #58
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ok well since I am not an italian soldier and the year is not 1934, the fact that they once had ok wood, and the government would have supplied all my ammo is pretty irrelevant.

the wood is bad NOW.
the ammo does not exist NOW
the only maker of proper diameter bullets is not making them NOW

that is why, for my purposes, and the purposes of anyone thinking of buying them, they are JUNK NOW!!!!!!

Quote:
The fact is, the 6.5 Carcano is an excellent, well balanced cartridge. If it were invented today and put into a modern semiauto rifle, the combination would rock.
no... no it is not. and no it would not.
6.5 carcano is nearly a direct twin to the 6.5 jap. I've hunted with jap and it's not in any way shape or form "a great cartridge"

with a 140gr bullet, from a 21 inch barrel, the 6.5 carcano is only able to push about 2200FPS. about the same as what I was able to get a 140gr from a 20 inch jap carbine.

looking at other 6.5mm cartridges which use easier bullets to get ahold of and use less powder than the carcano.
6.5 creedmore gets 2700FPS
6.5 swede gets 2500FPS(but can be pushed 2600 with more powder)
6.5 grendel can push about the same 2200FPS with close to half the powder. all with 20-24 inch barrels.

there are plenty of 6.5s that are much easier to load for, that are much more efficient.
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Old August 2, 2014, 08:48 PM   #59
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The wood on my cavalry carbine was excellent. Ammo from PRVI, both FMJ and SP, shot great.
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Old August 3, 2014, 02:33 AM   #60
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that is why, for my purposes, and the purposes of anyone thinking of buying them, they are JUNK NOW!!!!!!
As I said before, don't buy one.
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Old August 3, 2014, 08:10 AM   #61
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30 years ago most military rifles were junk if ammo was a problem. That is why the big re-barrel craze got moving. Because rifles with a split bridge and other weirdness were a pain to scope, most were not even considered worth reworking. Many rifles with these conditions were used for hunting until scopes became the norm. When is the last time someone you know wanted to scope a .303 Brit to hunt with? Back when iron sights were king, the deer woods was full of them. I am thinking that the wood really is meaningless. All the military guns used to hunt had the wood cut off anyway. It could not have been that important what it was made of.
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Old August 5, 2014, 11:25 AM   #62
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Every time I read this thread title, I hear it said "aloud" in my head with a voice which is a caricature of Jerry Seinfeld's stand-up routines: "What's the DEAL with.... "
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Old August 5, 2014, 12:22 PM   #63
tahunua001
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please don't....


...just...

...don't.
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Old August 5, 2014, 12:28 PM   #64
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I like K-31's.
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Old August 5, 2014, 12:28 PM   #65
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Well, I just hope that when/if we meet, your voice isn't just like Seinfeld's, ha ha.
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Old August 5, 2014, 09:22 PM   #66
tahunua001
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it's not, you can stand at ease.
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