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Old July 16, 2014, 09:34 PM   #1
SwwPlayboy
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Texas - My right to carry my hand gun

I dont have my CHL, and I dont plan on getting one. Mainly cause I dont want my name in a data base and Ive seen to many cops blow a gasket when you do the right thing and hand them your CHL and they freak out knowing you have a gun on you.

I have a 1911 that rides with me in my truck every where I go. I normally have it tucked right next to me between the center consul and my seat with a full clip. I haven't been pulled over with it next to me but I am curious if, by law, I am allowed to have it sitting next to me in plain view with a full clip in it. Ive been told the best thing is to just keep it out of sight as long as it is not on my body.

Just curious what is legal as far as having a loaded pistol next to you in plain view, in a vehicle, in texas.

Long live our second amendment.
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Old July 16, 2014, 10:18 PM   #2
barnbwt
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Cops freak out at a CHL, yet you plan on having a gun visible adjacent your person during a traffic stop (or whenever, to cops, passersby, thieves, etc.)

You don't want to be in a database, yet post about your specific gun & its location on a public internet forum, easily traceable back to you

My understanding is a vehicle is considered an extension of the 'home' or 'castle' in Texas, and open or concealed carry are permissible on your property. Won't stop people from calling it in, claiming brandishing, or an officer ignorant of the law from making it an issue.

Just get a carry permit and carry the gun with you, in a real holster, everywhere . You'll be unhappy if you need the gun more than 1ft from your car door. Whatever you do, get a real holster. Please?

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Old July 16, 2014, 10:27 PM   #3
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I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY, I AM NOT PRETENDING TO BE AN ATTORNEY, I AM NOT A RESIDENT OF TEXAS, PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO UNDERSTAND THE LAWS IN YOUR STATE OR CONTACT AN ATTORNEY WHO DOES UNDERSTAND THEM

That said, please go see Texas Penal Code Section 46.02 (particularly 46.02 (a-1) 1). Carrying in plain view is indeed illegal (based on my reading of the law) while in your vehicle. It seems upon my cursory reading, that carrying CONCEALED in YOUR OWN vehicle (or one you are driving) is OK, but having it in plain view is not.

Go get a permit would be my advice.
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Old July 16, 2014, 10:40 PM   #4
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I've never been remotely hassled by any cop over having a CWP up here. I also think it's gotten me out of a ticket once or twice, they know I'm not some flake.

As far as databases go, the CWP database is about the most private one you can be on up here. It's prohibited by law to release personal information from the data set. The only thing anyone can find out is number of permittees by zip code or county, and LEO's can determine validity.

My question is, if it's illegal to carry outside of your property or vehicle, why carry in your vehicle? I'm driving off if there's a problem, no question about it.
A permit certainly increases the options available for carry.
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Old July 16, 2014, 11:04 PM   #5
JohnKSa
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Quote:
I am curious if, by law, I am allowed to have it sitting next to me in plain view with a full clip in it. Ive been told the best thing is to just keep it out of sight as long as it is not on my body.

Just curious what is legal as far as having a loaded pistol next to you in plain view, in a vehicle, in texas.
Carrying a pistol openly in TX is not legal except in very limited circumstances. Routinely carrying a pistol openly in your car is certainly illegal in TX.

If you are carrying with a CHL, the handgun must be concealed.

If you are carrying in your vehicle without a CHL, the handgun must be concealed. It may be concealed in the vehicle, or on your person but it must be concealed. If you are carrying it openly in your vehicle you can be charged with a crime.

If you get out of your vehicle, and you don't have a CHL, in general you can not carry the pistol legally either concealed or openly unless you are at home or on other private property were you can legally carry it.

It doesn't matter if it's loaded or unloaded unless you make an LEO really mad and he decides to get even by charging you with some sort of violation under the hunting regulations. The TX penal code doesn't differentiate between loaded and unloaded firearms. If you can legally do something with an unloaded firearm, you can also do it with a loaded firearm. If you can't legally do it with a loaded firearm, unloading it won't make the action legal.
Quote:
Ive seen to many cops blow a gasket when you do the right thing and hand them your CHL and they freak out knowing you have a gun on you.
I've been carrying since the CHL law passed (about 20 years) and I've been stopped a few times during that timeframe. I've never had a TX LEO freak out over my CHL. I'm not saying it never happens, but it doesn't seem to be at all common based on feedback from other CHL holders I've talked to.

I'm curious as to how you are seeing LEO/CHL interaction without ever having had a CHL?
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Old July 16, 2014, 11:21 PM   #6
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Not wanting to be in a database is absurd. You are already in many databases.

Also, how would you know how a cop reacts to a CHL? You don't have a CHL.

I interact with cops often, and none of them freak out over my Texas CHL. To the contrary, people who have CHLs are generally better behaved and more lawful than the average person, and cops know this.

I met a guy once who refused to get a drivers license and refused to get a CHL, even though he carried. He was a sovereign citizen, even though he denied the label. Kept talking about databases and how licensing of any type isn't in the constitution, blah blah blah. But he was on food stamps, which I am sure is a type of database and not in the constitution.
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Old July 16, 2014, 11:37 PM   #7
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SWW
Welcome. You are way off base, IMHO

The fact that you are in the CHL database means there is a higher level of trust. You've been checked out on a number of databases, gang, druggie, sexoff, DUI, domestic violence and others. It also means, according to my ride along observations, you will, unofficially, have some slack cut if you get pulled over and are polite. Lots of anecdotal stories to that affect. Even if you do something minor that should get you a ticket, I've seen that called a peccadillo and brushed off.

Do what you want, but by the way, you are already in many databases as noted above if you lawfully drive a car you own.
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Old July 17, 2014, 09:07 AM   #8
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SWW, let me say as politely as possible that you have no idea what you are talking about.

First off, you don't have your CHL so don't go around saying that you have seen too many cops react one way or another when they see it. I, as well as most any other licensed Texas CHL holder, would tell you pretty much the exact opposite of what you "have seen".

Secondly, what you are thinking of doing (carrying a handgun in plain view in a vehicle) is illegal whether you have your CHL or not. A handgun must be concealed while in your vehicle whether it is on your body or not.
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Old July 17, 2014, 09:15 AM   #9
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You are worried that you might end up getting in a law enforcement database, and yet you will post details about how you carry on the Internet. This makes no sense.

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Old July 17, 2014, 09:24 AM   #10
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You're in about million databases already, so seriously? Drivers license, taxes, social security, school records, birth certificate, car registration, utilities, credit cards, banks, etc etc...

Do you think skipping this one will make you invisible? The government probably knows your shoe size at this point

Get your CC license and avoid being added to the database of felons. THAT'S the one you want to avoid.
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Old July 17, 2014, 10:00 AM   #11
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A couple of minor notes to add...

First...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnKSa
If you get out of your vehicle, and you don't have a CHL, in general you can not carry the pistol legally either concealed or openly unless you are at home or on other private property were you can legally carry it.
Generally, yes.

That said, TX Penal Code § 46.02(a)(2) says that a non-licensed person may carry a concealed handgun while he/she is "...directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control." (Emphasis mine.)

The second provision implies that non-licensed CCW is allowed under certain narrow circumstances outside of private property where one is permitted to carry; however, AFAIK there is no hard-and-fast established legal definition of "directly en route" under current TX case law. IOW I wouldn't recommend trying it unless you're OK with being a test case.

Second....

TX Penal Code § 46.02(a-1)(2)(a) forbids vehicular carry while "...engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic or boating"- i.e. a routine traffic violation. (Emphasis mine.)

Be aware that a DWI is a Class A or Class B misdemeanor under § 49.04(c) & (d); IOW a DWI conceivably counts as "criminal activity" under § 46.02. If you get caught driving drunk, you could be looking at a weapons charge in addition to the DWI charges if you have your gun with you.

Mandatory disclaimer: I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. This is not official legal advice. YMMV and caveat emptor.
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Old July 17, 2014, 10:09 AM   #12
kilimanjaro
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CarGuy, those clarifications you posted are good information. What I get out of them is, you're not going to be able to get out of a serious felony if you carry in your car, the restrictions are very narrow and with no room for fudging.
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Old July 17, 2014, 10:18 AM   #13
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"I have a 1911 that rides with me in my truck every where I go. I normally have it tucked right next to me between the center consul and my seat with a full clip."

You keep that crap up in Texas and you are going to be in the very last database you would ever want to be in -- the master list of convicted felons.

Get your CCW.

You're breaking the law, and by doing so, you are giving every law-abiding gun owner a bad reputation, and you are just fueling the antis' arguments.

If you do get popped, don't expect a lot of sympathy from those gun owners who do follow the various laws.
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Old July 17, 2014, 10:23 AM   #14
Alpena
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Your already in many practically overrun databases, what's one more because of a CHL? A simple license that can help you avoid a misdaminor and jail time. I'm in the process of getting my CHL but I'm still carrying my 45 in the glove box since it is legal. I have never been pulled over and would never let an LEO search my truck since I'm not legally obliged to. What I find hilarious is how many people want to "live off the grid" these days not knowing how much technology is around them everyday. In your situation you have rights and the voice of a U.S. citizen. If a public service officer is rude or unprofessional you have to file a complaint against him or her. I've dealt with a few officers who have felt like they superior beings because of a dingy piece of metal on their chest, though most were very professional. My advice, take a CDL class, send off your paperwork, get your CHL in the mail, and enjoy your 2nd amendment rights.
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Old July 17, 2014, 10:25 AM   #15
allaroundhunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kilimanjaro View Post
CarGuy, those clarifications you posted are good information. What I get out of them is, you're not going to be able to get out of a serious felony if you carry in your car, the restrictions are very narrow and with no room for fudging.

Not quite. Carry in the vehicle is a straight forward law that is fairly easy to stay on the right side of. The gun must be concealed; whether it is on your body or not and you may not be involved in any criminal activity other than a Class C misdemeanor.

If you are leaving your vehicle and are not in direct route to your home or watercraft then the gun must be left in the vehicle.

The OP is just having a problem with the 'concealed' part of the law which yes, will land him in a database that I'm pretty sure he really doesn't want to be a part of.
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Old July 17, 2014, 11:04 AM   #16
Glenn E. Meyer
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TX police in general do not freak out if you have a CHL. I have had interactions with them (for various reasons) and have never seen anything untoward.

The OP is quite naive or trolling, IMHO.

If serious, having a gun in an uncontrolled position such as next to or tucked in - is dangerous on several dimensions. In an accident the gun can go flying, for example. It can shift and if you did need it, the 'draw' from weird places is not optimal.
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Old July 17, 2014, 02:04 PM   #17
JimDandy
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How often do you drive within 1000 yards of a school?

That right there is reason enough to get a CHL no matter how often you carry/travel around with a firearm.
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Old July 17, 2014, 02:07 PM   #18
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Mainly cause I dont want my name in a data base and Ive seen to many cops blow a gasket when you do the right thing and hand them your CHL and they freak out knowing you have a gun on you.
Being a 'regular' at defensive driving over the last 15 years, well let's just say I have a lead foot and have met a lot of cops in a professional capacity. I have never had one freak out.

That you have seen many cops "blow a gasket" just does not sound accurate.

I think, overall, your concerns are misplaced.
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Old July 17, 2014, 02:19 PM   #19
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In addition to my post on my the actual section of the law you are violating, I wanted to come back and add in my anecdotal evidence.

Since I acquired my license, I have been pulled over for various traffic offenses 5 times (I think). Here is what I have learned in those 5 times:

1. The officers have never been anything but friendly and nice, just as they would any other citizen.
2. Twice, I ended up BSing with the office after he examines my paperwork about the gun I carry and where I like to shoot at. They never went back to their squad car to run my info.
3. I have ZERO tickets in theses 5 encounters.
4. Twice, I have come upon a DUI Checkpoint while carrying, and as soon as they see me hand them two licenses, they wave me through as they assume I am not drinking since it is illegal to do so while carrying in OH.

Basically what I am trying to say is that my interactions with officers have not gotten any worse, and have actually improved since receiving my permit. They realize (I'm guessing here, I am not an officer) that I am one of the "good guys" who is trying to follow the law, who has been through a background check, and who has been officially trained on the safe use of a firearm.

Go get a license.
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Old July 17, 2014, 03:48 PM   #20
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Funny thing, this internet doohickey here.
I typed in a search on Google for 'Texas laws on concealed handguns' and in less than five minutes learned all one might need to know.

I'd say unless the OP is John Connor there is no real need to avoid entry to 'government databases'.
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Old July 17, 2014, 05:52 PM   #21
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yea right

I live in Texas if you keep doing that, carrying a pistol next to you in the car without a permit a officer will explain your rights to you and it will start with 'you have the right to remain silent" you are already in lots of government data bases most Texas law enforcement officers are concealed permit holder friendly few if any are friendly to unlicensed carry I would bet that being on this forum puts us on numerous government data bases
bb
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Old July 18, 2014, 07:23 AM   #22
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Mainly cause I dont want my name in a data base
You think those "government folks" don't monitor sites like these?
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Old July 18, 2014, 09:50 AM   #23
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This thread is already turning sour, so I'm going to go ahead and close it.

Thank you all for being civil.
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