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Old June 22, 2014, 05:22 AM   #76
Brit
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In reading the whole thread (again) seems like it is about 50/50 engage, don't engage.

As most times I am out in public, actually walking in a store, a mall, I am accompanied by my Wife of 21 years, I could care less for being a interfering part time Cop.

I do work now and again for my Son's Security Company, in uniform, armed.
But with my Wife, on our daily activity's, my only concern, said Wife!

In shooting most items for some 60 years, I have a good idea what will stop hand gun rounds. And that is where you will find us. Under cover, with a view.

As many of the young Police Officers I have trained, have on majority never been in a fist fight, let alone a gun fight, me standing with my Glock 19 in hand is not going to happen. Getting shot in a "Man with a gun" call, is not my desire.

So holstered, till, and if required, is the mode I would be in. And no, commands of "Drop the GUN!" Is not my style, I see you as a threat, you are going to get shot, a lot. I have a Wife, Kids, and Grandkids who need me around for a while longer, thank you.
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Old July 14, 2014, 10:11 PM   #77
Ruark
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I think this is one of those nightmare scenario-types most CC'ers hope they're never in. A BG in a store or bank waves a gun around, maybe fires a shot into the ceiling. You could whip out your weapon and put him down instantly, but you decide it doesn't meet the "imminent danger" requirement and do nothing. Then the BG blows a young mother's head off.

Could you live with it?

"She would be alive today if I......"

It makes you think of the fundamental question, "how many lives should be 'sacrificed' before I decide to engage?"

Last edited by Ruark; July 14, 2014 at 10:24 PM.
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Old July 15, 2014, 02:36 PM   #78
45_auto
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Quote:
Then the BG blows a young mother's head off.

Could you live with it?
Yes.

I fail to see where getting my head, my wife's head, my kid's heads, and 3 or 4 other innocent bystander's heads as well as the young mother's head blown off benefits anyone.
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Old July 16, 2014, 10:03 AM   #79
Ruark
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Quote:
Yes.

I fail to see where getting my head, my wife's head, my kid's heads, and 3 or 4 other innocent bystander's heads as well as the young mother's head blown off benefits anyone.
Can you reply to a post without sounding like a smartass? As stated in the OP, the presumption is that you are able to engage the BG effectively.
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Old July 16, 2014, 11:51 AM   #80
45_auto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruark
As stated in the OP, the presumption is that you are able to engage the BG effectively.
Probably be a good idea for you to work on your reading comprehension. I've copied the OP's post for you below, look it over VERY CAREFULLY for any mention of "engaging the bad guy effectively".

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyR
I came across this link on CNN. It details how a CCW holder in Las Vegas attempted to confront a shooter in a local WalMart after the shooter had killed two off duty police officers. It left me with 2 thoughts:

1) We all talk about the effect of "good guys with guns," but the reality is that being that person may mean we put ourselves in harms way. It is a risk we all assume.

2) The citizen CCW, Joseph Wilcox, moved to confront someone who from what I read, fired a round into the ceiling of the Walmart store. The LEOs that had been killed were killed in a local pizza place, which I assume was not attached to the WalMart. The article also quotes Wilcox's sister, stating that he ran into the store to confront the shooter.

From a T&T standpoint, this raises the question of who you intend to defend with your weapon. Wilcox decided to try to defend other people in the store, whereas many of us believe we carry only ourselves and our famlies. I won't call either of these right or wrong, but I think it is ALWAYS a bad idea for a non-LEO citizen to engage a shooter, especially since the only known crime at the time was shooting into the ceiling and ordering people out.

Am I off base here?

ETA: I tried searching for this before posting, but just now found an earlier thread on this event. The focus on that thread appears to be the role of CCWs in stopping tragedies. As such, unless Staff feel the thread is redundant, I want to keep this one focused on the tactics used and how we can learn from this tragedy (i.e. the risks of entering an active shooter situation, the need to identify all targets, etc.)
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Old July 16, 2014, 07:00 PM   #81
Mainah
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Reading the thread again changed my mind. I initially thought that the reaction of the Walmart victim was an act of courage. I now believe that he was brave, but foolish. The bottom line is that he's not around to explain his actions.
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Old July 16, 2014, 07:30 PM   #82
Ruark
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Quote:
Probably be a good idea for you to work on your reading comprehension. I've copied the OP's post for you below,
I'm sorry, but by "OP" I meant MY post... .the one you were disagreeing with, not the first post in the thread. It's very clear in MY post that you are in a position to engage the BG effectively. But just forget it, you're obviously not interested in civil discussion.
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Old July 16, 2014, 08:24 PM   #83
pax
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Closed.

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