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Old June 1, 2014, 07:51 PM   #1
birddseedd
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My reloads are causing malfunctions

I'm using hs-7, hordany states 5.6 to 6.4 gn. I'm at 6 gn.

dillon press.

seems to not want to eject the cases and causes feeding issues.

any ideas?







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Old June 1, 2014, 07:52 PM   #2
birddseedd
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Old June 1, 2014, 08:01 PM   #3
ghbucky01
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I don't really have much to offer you here, but I know you need to provide a lot more detail for the experts here to be of much help.

what Caliber?
Bullet style and weight?
Recoil spring weight?
Has your load ever worked consistently?
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Old June 1, 2014, 08:06 PM   #4
birddseedd
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what Caliber? 9mm
Bullet style and weight? 124 tumble lube lyman caste bullets
Recoil spring weight? no idea, but my fns is much stronger than my wifes S&W shield
Has your load ever worked consistently? in my fns itl work for a mag or two (17 rds each) then ill have a few that wigg out. my wifes fails every 5 rounds.
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Old June 1, 2014, 10:22 PM   #5
chris in va
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Quote:
I'm using hs-7, hordany states 5.6 to 6.4 gn. I'm at 6 gn.
There's your problem. HS-7 is too slow a powder, mostly used for magnum cartridges such as the 357. Try something faster.

Look for 231, HP38, Universal, Power Pistol or even Unique.
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Old June 1, 2014, 10:47 PM   #6
tangolima
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The load is too light.

-TL
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Old June 1, 2014, 11:12 PM   #7
Jim Watson
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Agreed.
Speer No 12 shows much heavier loads than "hordany."
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Old June 1, 2014, 11:18 PM   #8
Jim243
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Quote:
The load is too light.
Not according to Hornady's 8th Edition, but Hogdgon who sells that powder does not show any load data for that powder in that weight 9x19, so it may not be suitable for that application. You mentioned two different problems I believe.

First the FNS, if it is new then yes the springs will be stiff until it is broken in. But I think your issue is a mag problem since you state you have no problem with the first two mags out of the three that come with the pistol. Check the mag lips on the third mag to see it they match the other two, they don't have to be off much to cause a feeding problem.

As to your wife's S&W Shield, It sounds like an extractor problem and may be dirty and needs cleaning. But I don't know for sure.

Jim
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Last edited by Jim243; June 1, 2014 at 11:28 PM.
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Old June 2, 2014, 06:41 AM   #9
birddseedd
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Both firearms and all mags work with manufacturer ammo

I meant to say that in my fns I can go through a couple mags of ammo before having problems it doesn't matter which mags they are
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Old June 2, 2014, 08:13 AM   #10
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Quote:
Both firearms and all mags work with manufacturer ammo
That's, as they say on the cops shows, is what is known as a clue.
At least you know it's not the guns.
The cure can be tedious, but lots better than if it were the fault of the guns.
Now, you just have to discover the reloads the guns like.
But beware of modifying the guns to suit the reloads, though.
If / when you would want to use factory ammo, they might not work well, and you would be back where you started, but in reverse.
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Old June 2, 2014, 08:37 AM   #11
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I'll throw in my own bone-headed stunt here in case it helps you out.

I was going through a very similar headache with a 4" Kimber .45 ACP. It would shoot great for a while with my reduced power rounds, and then would start acting up.

It kept getting worse and worse, and I was going crazy. Changing out recoil springs, upping charges, etc. Nothing worked.

I finally figured out that it was due to me leaving my powder in the hopper on my reloading bench. The powder was degrading.

Also, during the course of researching this, I ended up on a phone call with a guy who was an expert on springs. He told me that the standard piano wire springs that are used for recoil springs change behavior as they heat up. I won't pretend to understand what he told me, but that is the short version.

So, it might be that your rounds are fine for the springs when they are cold, but as they heat up from firing the loads are no longer powerful enough for the heated up springs. If the rounds are fine for a few mags today, and a few mags tomorrow, that sounds like what he was describing to me.
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Old June 3, 2014, 01:25 PM   #12
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I agree with the powder . . . try something a little faster.

I load my 9mm with 3.5 gr Bulls Eye under a 120 gr lead TC slug. In my SR9, they never give a problem. Not saying it would work in yours, but if you can, try some of the other powders that chris in va suggested. I'm guessing you'll see a big difference.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.
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Old June 8, 2014, 08:43 PM   #13
birddseedd
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Well. lube seems to be it. I ran some non lubed cases today, they worked perfectly. did feel rough running them through the press tho. so i need to find a different solution for lubing
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Old June 9, 2014, 07:26 AM   #14
ghbucky01
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Quote:
so i need to find a different solution for lubing
Look into carbide pistol dies, they do not require lube. They work well.
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Old June 9, 2014, 07:32 AM   #15
birddseedd
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I believe that they are carbide but I don't like how it gets "stuck". I have to pull down pretty hard on each pull
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Old June 9, 2014, 07:39 AM   #16
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FWIW, Lee actually states that you should not clean your brass prior to using their carbide dies. Apparently the carbon residue acts as a lubricant.

I rinse my brass off with dish soap and water just to make sure there isn't grit on them and let them air dry for 24 hrs before sizing. Works for me.

A lot of range pickup brass requires some extra muscle in the sizing and expander die the first time I reload them, but it doesn't cause any problems.
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Old June 9, 2014, 07:41 AM   #17
birddseedd
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this is the 2nd time iv been told not to clean the brass
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Old June 9, 2014, 08:39 AM   #18
ghbucky01
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Look here:

http://leeprecision.net/support/inde...zing-9mm-cases

Quote:
The 9mm is one of the most difficult cases to size. The reason for this is that the case is tapered and as a result more of the case is in contact with the carbide ring increasing the friction. A couple of tricks can make the resizing job easier.

Do not clean you cases before sizing. Clean shiny brass is the most difficult to size. Clean brass tends to be sticky and can gall your die. The oxides and graphite that build up on fired cases make them slippery and easier to size. If you do clean your cases before sizing us a spray lube or even a light spray of aerosol furniture polish. Another trick is to put your cleaned cases in a lightly oiled cloth and massage them between your hands like a bag of marbles to give them a light coating of oil. Doing any of these things will make the resizing job a lot easier and eliminate stuck cases.

If you have sized a lot of cleaned cases without lubing them you may have some brass buildup (galling) on the carbide ring. You can remove this by wrapping 180 grain emery paper around a dowel and sanding the carbide ring. The emery paper will not scratch the carbide.
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Old June 9, 2014, 09:20 AM   #19
higgite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birddseedd
Well. lube seems to be it. I ran some non lubed cases today, they worked perfectly.
Case lube was causing your FTFs and FTEs? I would have never thought of that. What type and how much case lube were you using?
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Old June 9, 2014, 10:20 AM   #20
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Yeah it doesn't make a lot of sense. It is possible that the lube somehow got into either the primer or the power and it compromise the ignition or combustion.

-TL
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Old June 9, 2014, 02:32 PM   #21
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Actually, the case lube residue is causing case / chamber-gripping issues (see, the case expands against the chamber walls, and friction keeps it in place).
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Old June 9, 2014, 03:11 PM   #22
tangolima
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Shouldn't lube reduce friction? Some guns even oil or grease cartridges to aid extraction.

-TL
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Old June 9, 2014, 03:21 PM   #23
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The reason Hodgdon doesn't show 9 mm data for HS-7 is that it has been discontinued for some time, so the Hornady data will be old. HS-7 is a slower powder than HS-6, which would be more appropriate.


Birddseedd,

The actual cause of the problem is in your first photo. This old powder is too slow for your cast lead bullets, which have lower start pressures into the rifling than jacketed bullets do. As a result, your peak pressure is too low to produce complete combustion of the powder. The slower the powder is, the higher the pressure required to produce reasonably complete burning.

The above explains all those little unburned grains in your ejection port. I've had those jam up revolvers and self-loaders both. Your gun worked fine at first, simply because it was still clean enough to operate. With the unburned particles sticking to lube that was splattered around the inside of the gun during ejection, they are jamming the gun. Even with the lube gone, they may eventually jam it up again. The best bet is to switch to something that burns cleaner.
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Old June 9, 2014, 03:25 PM   #24
tangolima
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That makes sense.

-TL
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Old June 9, 2014, 05:32 PM   #25
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you are correct, Sir

Quote:
Shouldn't lube reduce friction? Some guns even oil or grease cartridges to aid extraction
And with the already-reduced pressure from a powder too 'slow' to fully develop sufficient pressure in an appropriate time, failure to eject occured. Not enough pressure to slam the slide back dragging the empty out, banging it hard against the ejector to smash it off the extractor hook and out the port.
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