The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Semi-automatics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 27, 2014, 09:37 AM   #1
jeager106
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 24, 2006
Location: N.E. Oh.
Posts: 527
Curious about .22 r.f. AR rifles.

I own 5 centerfire AR rifles, 3 are 5.56, one is a 6.8, one a .308.
They are as accurate out of the box as any good bolt gun, suitable for varmint & big game within the limits of the calibers.
I've kinda thought about an AR in .22 r.f. but haven't read any posts anywhere about the accuracy of the AR .22s.
"Only accurate rifles are interesting" is the phylosophy I follow.
I strive for a minimum 50 yard group of 1 inch or better from ALL my .22 r.f. rifles & I have several.
With .22 r.f. ammo the rifle prefers getting 1 inch 50 yard groups is definatley doable, my 10-22s do better than 1 inch even with Remington bulk Golden Bullets, I often achieve 0.5 inch with prefered ammo, not match ammo at that.
Do any of you AR .22 r.f. owners shoot the AR from a bench rest at 50 yards & test for accuracy?
If so what could I expect from an AR rifle in the way of accuracy?
Are they fun "blasting" rifles suitable for rolling tin cans?
That fun & fun is a good thing. I'm not such an accuracy snob that I won't have fun with a rifle.
jeager106 is offline  
Old May 27, 2014, 02:17 PM   #2
blfuller
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2013
Location: Washington State
Posts: 234
Buy yourself a dedicated AR15 upper in .22. CMMG and others make nice accurate uppers. All you would need to do is swap out your 5.56 upper and replace it with the dedicated .22 upper. It will probably do all you would like.
blfuller is offline  
Old May 27, 2014, 03:48 PM   #3
Fishbed77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2010
Posts: 2,809
Quote:
I've kinda thought about an AR in .22 r.f. but haven't read any posts anywhere about the accuracy of the AR .22s.
I can state for a fact that my CMMG dedicated .22LR upper-equipped AR-15 is the most accurate out-of-the-box semi-auto .22LR rifle I've ever fired with bulk .22LR (mostly HV) ammo.

This means I've found it to be more accurate than the standard Ruger 10/22, Marlin 60, Thompson Center R55, Remington 552 Speedmaster, Mossberg Plinkster, or Winchester Model 77.

It's not as accurate as my heavily-modified Ruger 10/22 with fluted bull barrel, Volquartsen parts, etc. (which can shoot 5-round cloverleafs at 50 yards). But I wouldn't expect it to be.
Fishbed77 is offline  
Old May 27, 2014, 06:39 PM   #4
Ibmikey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 1, 2013
Location: Medical Lake Wa.
Posts: 620
I have a DPMS AR in .22 LR that is a real hoot in the shooting arena. I use it mainly for a plinker at cans, rocks, old shotgun shells etc. My rifle has the standard GI Matech rear sight and gas block front so not set up for one hole target shooting but I have never felt at a loss to hit what I aimed at. A dedicated upper or rifle is the best way to enjoy rimfire shooting in an AR (well then there is the S&W 15-22 :-) ..........
Ibmikey is offline  
Old May 27, 2014, 07:00 PM   #5
jeager106
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 24, 2006
Location: N.E. Oh.
Posts: 527
Who sells .22 r.f uppers?
I didn't even know uppers only were being mfg for sale.
How much $$ are they?
I'm supposing the .22 r.f. upper is complete with bolt, etc.
What about mags? Does one need a mag block or does the magazine
for the .22 r.f. ctg. function without modifications to the AR lower?
jeager106 is offline  
Old May 27, 2014, 07:44 PM   #6
9x19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 15, 1998
Location: Sherman, TX USA
Posts: 2,702
I had a Tactical Solutions upper on a Rock River lower... mags are made by both CMMG and Black Dog Machine... no mods needed to lower for mags to fit. I sold mine during the recent silliness because I also have a pair of S&W 15-22s... (their complete rifle costs less than most dedicated uppers)

I prefer the S&Ws lighter weight and they are still plenty accurate. S&W has their own mags, but both of mine have proven reliable.

(CMMG also sells complete rifles in .22LR)

TacSol / RR


S&Ws


__________________
Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!
9x19 is offline  
Old May 27, 2014, 07:56 PM   #7
blfuller
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2013
Location: Washington State
Posts: 234
Quote:
Who sells .22 r.f uppers?
I didn't even know uppers only were being mfg for sale.
How much $$ are they?
I'm supposing the .22 r.f. upper is complete with bolt, etc.
What about mags? Does one need a mag block or does the magazine
for the .22 r.f. ctg. function without modifications to the AR lower?
CMMG and Tactical Solutions are some of the manufacturers. Google is your friend, search for them. They would be a complete upper with everything you need. The most common types of mags are the ones that work with the Ceiner kits, specifically Black Dog and CMMG. No modifications are necessary to use these magazines with a standard lower.

Do some searching, you will find lots of information if you google it.
blfuller is offline  
Old May 27, 2014, 08:42 PM   #8
Fishbed77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2010
Posts: 2,809
Quote:
Who sells .22 r.f uppers?
CMMG, Tactical Solutions, and Spikes are some of the more popular manufacturers.

Quote:
I didn't even know uppers only were being mfg for sale.
They are.

Quote:
How much $$ are they?
I paid $369 for my CMMG Sierra .22LR upper about two years ago. I believe the price has gone up a bit on them over the last few years.

Quote:
I'm supposing the .22 r.f. upper is complete with bolt, etc.
Mine was complete. I believe most .22LR uppers come with bolts (as I think they are proprietary to most manufacturers, though I could be wrong).

Quote:
What about mags?
Black Dog Machine and CMMG both make quality mags that will fit the CMMG/Tactical Solutions/Spikes uppers. I prefer the Black Dog Machine mags as they are easy to find, well-made, reliable, and inexpensive ($12-16 apiece).

Quote:
Does one need a mag block or does the magazine
for the .22 r.f. ctg. function without modifications to the AR lower?
The Black Dog Machine and CMMG mags function without modification to a standard AR lower. If you want the bolt hold-open feature to work, you need to insert an optional bolt hold-open adapter between the upper and lower, and make sure the mags you use have bolt hold-open compatible followers.


Here is a photo of my CMMG Sierra .22LR upper on a PSA lower:

Fishbed77 is offline  
Old May 30, 2014, 09:13 AM   #9
Destructo6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 1999
Location: Nogales, AZ USA
Posts: 3,816
I had nothing but trouble with CMMG dedicated .22lr rifles. Poor reliability, poor accuracy, and questionable magazines. 4 of them, so I don't think it's an isolated exception.
__________________
God gave you a soul.
Your parents, a body.
Your country, a rifle.

Keep all of them clean.
Destructo6 is offline  
Old May 30, 2014, 11:29 AM   #10
HKFan9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2008
Posts: 2,832
Get the S&W and don't look back. The dedicated uppers can be picky, and cost about the same as having a dedicated gun anyways. A buddy I work with has a SW that probably has well over 20,000 rounds through it and it runs great. Operates just like a normal AR.

The Mossberg 715T is junk.

I used to have a Umarex MP5, it was nice, I ended up selling it for something else, but it worked and looked great.

The Sig .22 semi's are decent, their downfall seems to be magazines (buddy has one that is nothing but issues), and being slightly more ammo picky.
HKFan9 is online now  
Old May 30, 2014, 12:20 PM   #11
BillyJack3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2, 2012
Posts: 408
There's a 15-22 in there with the FDE ladder rail covers. Great little .22. Accurate and very dependable. The S&W mags are arguably the best .22 mags on the market. I'm not a huge fan of the polymer quad rail but tacticool22 makes a conversion nut for that. It's definitely in the future plans.

BillyJack3 is offline  
Old May 30, 2014, 12:56 PM   #12
blfuller
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2013
Location: Washington State
Posts: 234
Quote:
The Sig .22 semi's are decent, their downfall seems to be magazines (buddy has one that is nothing but issues), and being slightly more ammo picky.
The mags that the SIG 522's use are Black Dog magazines with the SIG logo on them. They are essentially the Ceiner type. If your friend is having troubles, try different mags or upgrade to the newer nylon or steel feed lip types by CMMG or Black Dog.
blfuller is offline  
Old May 30, 2014, 04:14 PM   #13
Fishbed77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2010
Posts: 2,809
Quote:
I had nothing but trouble with CMMG dedicated .22lr rifles. Poor reliability, poor accuracy, and questionable magazines. 4 of them, so I don't think it's an isolated exception
I have to wonder if they have revised the design recently, or what you were doing to yours.

My CMMG is very accurate (note my comparisons above). The general consensus is that the CMMG .22LR uppers run well, and mine is no exception. I've put thousands of round through mine at this point, with no failures with the exception of a handful that could be attributed to bad bulk ammo (typical for rimfires). I have only used Black Dog Machine magazines, so I can not speak to the quality of the CMMG mags.
Fishbed77 is offline  
Old June 1, 2014, 08:14 AM   #14
BombthePeasants
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 335
I bought a Model 1 Sales 20" A2 upper receiver so I would have a .22LR version to match my Competition style upper, and I think it's fantastic. My wife and I shot the crap out of it yesterday and I think it is my favorite gun to shoot; quiet enough that you don't need ear pro!
BombthePeasants is offline  
Old June 1, 2014, 11:06 AM   #15
9x19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 15, 1998
Location: Sherman, TX USA
Posts: 2,702
My Sig 522s also ran good on the Black Dog AR22 mags... I only let them go because I committed to the AR platform.



__________________
Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!
9x19 is offline  
Old June 2, 2014, 09:34 AM   #16
Destructo6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 1999
Location: Nogales, AZ USA
Posts: 3,816
Quote:
I have to wonder if they have revised the design recently, or what you were doing to yours.
Nothing crazy at all. We were comparing the factory CMMG vs the S&W Mp 15-22 for the purpose of consideration for training weapons. All in an indoor range.

Ammo was CCI MiniMag and Stinger, Federal AutoMatch, and some unknown bulk Winchester load. I believe there were a couple of others which I can't recall.

Failure rate was 4%-5% with the CMMGs, which doesn't sound too bad until you take into account that the failure rate with the S&W was .1%.

The CMMGs also couldn't group better than a 8.5"x11" zero target at 50yards. Lots of different people shot them with similar results.

Also, loading the CMMG magazines past 15 rounds proved difficult to the average shooter. By comparison, the S&W was comically easy.

It's too bad, though, because the CMMG better replicates the weight of the standard M4, whereas the S&W is toy-like light. Fortunately, during training, most users quickly forget about the weight difference.
__________________
God gave you a soul.
Your parents, a body.
Your country, a rifle.

Keep all of them clean.
Destructo6 is offline  
Old June 2, 2014, 09:56 AM   #17
MrBorland
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 1,891
Ju$t how accurate do you want?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeager106
"Only accurate rifles are interesting" is the phylosophy I follow.
I strive for a minimum 50 yard group of 1 inch or better from ALL my .22 r.f. rifles & I have several
Compass Lake makes excellent match grade uppers for High Power Service Rifle competition. I (yet) don't own one myself, but they also make a match grade .22LR upper that's highly regarded for it's accuracy. They'll cost you about twice what a CMMG upper will, though.

http://www.compasslake.com/index.php...index&cPath=22
MrBorland is offline  
Old June 2, 2014, 03:17 PM   #18
krunchnik
Member
 
Join Date: October 27, 2010
Location: Lakeland,TN
Posts: 49
My CMMG Sierra on a DPMS pre ban lower I built,standard CMMG LPK-with a Nikon P22 2X7-great shooting rig.I only own CMMG mags of which 2 of them are the 10 rounders.

This is after I upgraded the furniture

Photo of the target was at 25 yards,shoots pretty accurately
__________________
THE CROW
Primary-Kimber ULTRA RAPTOR II
Secondary-Kimber PRO CARRY HD II
krunchnik is offline  
Old June 2, 2014, 05:36 PM   #19
arizona98tj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 975
I don't believe you'll see many 1" 50 yd groups from the S&W 15-22. Mine won't do it....and I've tried quite a variety of ammo including "target" rounds. Perhaps they've gotten better in the past few years? I have one of the earlier ones made.
__________________
stu-offroad.com
Largest Jeep TJ project site on the web!
(now with guns)
arizona98tj is offline  
Old June 2, 2014, 09:39 PM   #20
Fishbed77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2010
Posts: 2,809
Quote:
Failure rate was 4%-5% with the CMMGs, which doesn't sound too bad until you take into account that the failure rate with the S&W was .1%.

The CMMGs also couldn't group better than a 8.5"x11" zero target at 50yards. Lots of different people shot them with similar results.
As noted, this is the complete opposite of my experience with a CMMG upper (and that of most posted reviews).

1"-1.5" groups at 50 yards is the norm, not the exception. Any failures I've had (maybe 1 round out or 15-20 mags at worst) have been attributable to cheap bulk ammo (rounds that wouldn't fire after multiple firing pin strikes).

I have to wonder is you are talking about actual CMMG .22LR dedicated uppers or the CMMG drop-in bolt conversion unit used in a 5.56mm upper.

Last edited by Fishbed77; June 3, 2014 at 09:39 AM.
Fishbed77 is offline  
Old June 3, 2014, 09:06 AM   #21
Destructo6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 1999
Location: Nogales, AZ USA
Posts: 3,816
Neither a dedicated upper nor a drop in.

All are dedicated, factory made, CMMG .22lr rifles.
__________________
God gave you a soul.
Your parents, a body.
Your country, a rifle.

Keep all of them clean.
Destructo6 is offline  
Old June 4, 2014, 07:37 AM   #22
Ibmikey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 1, 2013
Location: Medical Lake Wa.
Posts: 620
As previously indicated I have a DPMS dedicated rimfire rifle, everyone talks of their failure rates however my rifle, and my 15-22 also, do not have difficulties with feed, eject or FTF and never have. Occasionally a round is no good and cleared with immediate action but I attribute that to the 40-50 year old ammo I am sending down range. Like my many AR's the rimfire rifles have shown they are well made and reliable and anxious to help digest the many thousands of rimfire on my shelves.
Although similar and equally fun to shoot both of these rifles are unique and different enough shooters to throughly enjoy both.
Ibmikey is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13038 seconds with 9 queries