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Old May 25, 2014, 01:00 AM   #1
Bezoar
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"poor mans" bullets

found an old post from 5-6 years ago on a different forumabout improvosed expanding bullets.

the whole gist of it was to use a very easy to expand at low velocity bullet and stick it into the hollow noseof a bigger bullet.

ie like sticking a .204 ruger or .17 cal varmint softpoint/ftx into a lswc-hp and pushing it as fast as you comfortably can. so your "guaranteed" expansion of the bigger bullet.

i havent found photos or recipes, so am wondering if anyone on here remembers this fun phase?
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Old May 25, 2014, 05:45 AM   #2
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haven't heard of it, but in theory, you would be doing something not unlike an EFMJ... minus the jacket, of course. I don't know if I would want to jam a bullet in another bullet, but maybe filling the hollowpoint with something pliable... like silicone caulk would be effective. it would be interesting to do some tests.

personally, though, I don't think it is all that necessary... not to mention, wouldn't it get expensive if you have to use not one but two bullets for every cartridge you load?
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Old May 25, 2014, 08:07 AM   #3
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I have seen pics of primers shoved into the hollow point, and even a 22 short shoved into a custom hollow point. They work best when shot at exploding targets from an AK47 held by a girl in a bikini on youtube.
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File Type: jpg primer in hollow point.JPG (17.8 KB, 98 views)
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Old May 25, 2014, 09:44 AM   #4
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I don't see how the bullet could remain stable unless the centerline of the bullet inserted into the point could be held in the centerline of the larger bullet.

My forty cal handgun has a 1 in 16 twist. If the bullet is traveling at 1,000 FPS when it leaves the barrel the bullet is spinning at 45,000 RPM.

My 2 cents.
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Old May 25, 2014, 10:55 AM   #5
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A lot of bother for a maybe result.

Get a HP mold, make some of your own HP boolits, then you get expansion. Don't think so?;



200 grain MP hp mold two HP designs.





How's that?



I can't imagine needing more expansion from a 45 acp.

Here's a NOE ,(Night Owl Enterprises), 200 SWC HP that's available right now.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...roducts_id=743

My MP brass mold is only available through a group buy over at castboolits.com. You'd have to register, then get on the group buy, then wait up to 1.5 years.
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Old May 25, 2014, 12:46 PM   #6
jmr40
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The plastic tipped rifle bullets do the same thing. They are a HP bullet with a pointy plastic tip to improve aerodynamics. At impact the plastic tip is driven into the HP cavity helping to ensure good expansion.

I can't see any home made version of this being acceptably accurate and reliable. Not any cheaper either, probably more expensive.
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Old May 25, 2014, 01:35 PM   #7
Mike / Tx
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Quote:
How's that?

I can't imagine needing more expansion from a 45 acp.
Those are great Snuffy,

Oh and I haven't even pulled out any pictures of mine just yet, I don't even think I have any of those yet. I'll have to wash some up and take a few.

This is from a similar mold to Snuffy's only the weight is running 260grs and fired at 50yds from my 45 Colt, my MP 200's like pictured above are very similar to this,


What some are using nowadays instead of primers or loaded rounds are the air soft BB's. All you do is crimp the nose over a little when sizing the bullet and neat little colored tipped bullets. Oh most of those have been swedged bullets, though it will easily work just the same for cast. Should keep the noses from plugging up with debris like these did,


Oh and that one on the far right there is also one of those 260gr ones only loaded into my ACP just to see how they worked.
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Old May 25, 2014, 01:51 PM   #8
Clark
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Snuffy and Mike, you guys have impressive pictures on this topic.
Maybe I need air soft bullets to be more deadly.
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Old May 25, 2014, 03:52 PM   #9
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About the time of the rise in popularity of the 125 gr 357 mag load,Lee Jurras came out with his Super-Vel ammo.
At the same time,certain political factions were pushing hard to ban hollow point bullets.

The Super-Vel ammo was pointed out in the rhetoric as being the most vicious of the hollow points...except for one technical error

The Super-Vel was a plain swaged semi-wadcutter with a copper half jacket,no hollow point.Thehalf jacket permitted dead soft pure lead core to be driven at high velocity.

I think the answer you seek has to do with achieving a very soft lead bullet in the front,while the rear portion is a harder alloy or jacket to avoid leading.

Folks have experimented with composite bullets for a long time..Maybe I recall something about it in a Ned Roberts book ..about black powder.

I also recall a Ross Seifred article on two stage casting,where a mold was filled partially with an alloy and partially with pure lead.

I have forgotten just how.I'd guess it was an old Handloader mag.
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Old May 25, 2014, 06:10 PM   #10
Bezoar
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from the take i got from reading old posts was that,

take that nice hollow base wadcutter, toss in the lightest easisest to open up tiny varmint bullet, say that 20 grain 204 ruger with polymer tip, insert it in the hbwc, and load that hollow forward. everything would stay together well.
from what i gathered was that it was somewhat sucessful. cost was issue.
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Old May 26, 2014, 05:34 AM   #11
Mike / Tx
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Quote:
Snuffy and Mike, you guys have impressive pictures on this topic.
Maybe I need air soft bullets to be more deadly.
Air soft pellets not used nor needed with mine, they do that all on their own.

What some use them for with their swadged bullets however is to try and eliminate the cavity being plugged, and at the same time giving a soft enough media that will promote expansion upon impact.

The pic of the jacketed bullets above demonstrates what can happen if the nose plugs, and doesn't allow the bullet to expand as it should. The cast one on the far right however had the same plugged nose as the others but still managed to expand. All of them including the top ones were shot through the lids of 5 gallon buckets I use to recover my bullets with. Most of the factory made jacketed bullets will punch the nose with a chunk of the plastic, and not expand, where as the cast ones do the same, they are pliable enough to continue expanding, and usually end up like above.

One thing to consider when looking at the bottom pic is, the cast one mixed in with the jacketed weighs in at just over 260grs, and was loaded and shot out of a 45 ACP. It was being compared to those other factory loads, (the Gold Dot and the Hydro Shok,) and one other hand load sitting next to it simply to see how it might perform.
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Old May 26, 2014, 05:39 AM   #12
Mike / Tx
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from what i gathered was that it was somewhat sucessful. cost was issue.
I could see that being a part of it, but with some of the HBWC's I played with years ago, you really didn't need much if anything to promote expansion with them. My friend and I destroyed who knows how many milk jugs, and newspapers playing around with them. For close range work they were devastating as most reports have them. That said though, they weren't very reliable in the penetration dept. Nor was the expansion always consistent.
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