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Old September 13, 2008, 11:26 PM   #1
tranks
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870 out of the box cleaning

i bought my first shotgun today, 870 express 12 ga.
couldn't pass up $239 w/ mail in rebate.

i got home and in the manual it says to clean the barrel before assembly.
ran my brush threw it a couple times.

is there a special coating they put on the inside of the barrels, it almost looked like rust. didn't take very long to scrub it out, but it didn't seem like something that should of been there.

looking threw the barrel before cleaning, i could see a ruff spot about in the middle of the barrel.
after cleaning it, it looked "brand new" shiny. definitely was not rust but i don't know.

is this normal?
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Old September 14, 2008, 12:32 AM   #2
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Congratulations on your new 870-X.
New firearms typically have some preservative coating, especially in the bore. It's always a very good idea to clean the bore of a new firearm, no matter how clean it looks, even if not mentioned in the manual. I'm sure you'd rather clean out some factory preservative than rust. Be glad you have a new 870 to clean, it could be a lot worse. . .
Ask any old GI, or collector, about removing Cosmoline from a firearm fresh out of MIL storage. In the days before preserving with vacuum-pack boPET film, firearms were protected with a slime, similar to petroleum jelly, that was very tenacious and difficult to remove. GI's issued new firearms, were likely to get hit for a dirty weapon at several inspections before they were able to be rid of all traces of Preservative, MIL-C-11796C Class 3.
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Old September 14, 2008, 05:43 AM   #3
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It is normal. You should also detail strip and thoroughly clean and lubricate the action of a new 870 as well. From experience, I can tell you that failure to do so will result in a sticky action and difficult extraction. You will find the same brown gunk you found in the barrel in the action as well.

Congratulations, great shotgun. I have 3.
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Old September 14, 2008, 06:57 AM   #4
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Congratulations on your purchase. I've owned a few 870s and still have three Remingtons with that same finish. Just a word of caution: keep a light coat of oil on all the surfaces or it will turn orange in no time. It will take a while for it to penetrate the finish and provide good protection. From then on, you don't need to oil it as much or as often.
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Old September 14, 2008, 01:28 PM   #5
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thanks for the tips guys, after watching a few how-to videos on youtube, i figured out how to disassemble and reassemble it.
got it clean out and installed the mag plug.
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Old September 14, 2008, 02:24 PM   #6
.300 Weatherby Mag
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I must recommend one modification... I've had problems with the last two 870's I purchased.. The magazine followers are now a flimsy plastic piece even in the wingmasters.... I had two split with under 200 rounds in the gun in both a 12 and 20 gauge.... Get the stainless follower.... Now the older remmy's I have with the metal followers, zero issues....


http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/sto...TGUN+FOLLOWERS
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Old September 14, 2008, 03:17 PM   #7
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thats some good advice.

is there a reason you suggest the stainless?
i see the aluminum is available in red, orange, green and black, but the stainless is natural finish only.
i think it would be nice to have a bright color for checking to see if its unloaded.
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Old September 14, 2008, 04:01 PM   #8
.300 Weatherby Mag
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Tranks,

Dirt sticks to aluminum... Just how you don't want to use a bare aluminum cleaning rod on a rifle... Because it holds dirt and allows it to get spread throughout the bore of the gun.... The aluminum follower does the same thing except it's doing in it the magazine tube... The stainless contrasts enough with the reciever so its pretty easy even in low light conditions to see the follower... Now if you want something easier yet to see.. You can go with one of the bright orange or green tactical plastic followers made by Choate or Scattergun Technologies.... I had one of my 870's stop functioning while out hunting when the stock follower split and turned sideways in the magazine tube... I sent the gun back to remington and they sent it back with a new follower.. Identical in design I had issues with.... I did some research and I found the brownell followers... I'm going on over 2 years with the stainless followers and they are great...

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/sto...INE%20FOLLOWER
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...602&t=11082005
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Old September 14, 2008, 08:05 PM   #9
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hmm, i did not know that about aluminum.

i'll have to talk to one of my friends thats a machinist. maybe he could make a couple of them for his and mine. i'm sure he could get some stainless no problem.
i could probably paint the end of it too if i have problems seeing it.
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Old September 15, 2008, 01:44 AM   #10
.300 Weatherby Mag
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I have a friend thats a tool and die maker... When I really looked into it.. It was a heck of a lot easier and cheaper to spend the $20+$4 shipping for the follower rather than to have him machine them for me...
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Old September 15, 2008, 06:09 PM   #11
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Don't modify it for now / you have a good serviceable shotgun. Go out and have some fun with it - put some shells thru it.

I would recommend you get a book or a buddy to help you completely strip the gun down ( take the forend off, the bolt and follower, remove the trigger assembly ) and clean inside the receiver as well as all the parts. Then lube it real well, I prefer Break Free, and put it back together before you fire it.

I would also spray some WD-40 all over the outside of the gun - barrel, receiver, stock - and wipe it down good. Remove the chokes too - and clean out the threads in the barrel and the choke tube threads - and lube it before you put it back ( Break Free ) real liberally on the threads.

Congratulations on the new gun.
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Old September 15, 2008, 08:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
BigJimP
Don't modify it for now / you have a good serviceable shotgun. Go out and have some fun with it - put some shells thru it.

I would recommend you get a book or a buddy to help you completely strip the gun down ( take the forend off, the bolt and follower, remove the trigger assembly ) and clean inside the receiver as well as all the parts. Then lube it real well, I prefer Break Free, and put it back together before you fire it.

I would also spray some...
i did do a complete strip already, but your right about getting help. if it wasn't for a couple how-to videos on youtube.com i would have waited until i had help to do it.
i scrubbed most of it with some solvent, but just wiped everything with a paper towel with hoppes 9 oil.

maybe i should redo it again do a better job cleaning and use more oil to reassemble
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Old September 15, 2008, 09:18 PM   #13
.300 Weatherby Mag
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BigJimP,
I've had two wingmasters have issues with the mag followers with under 200 round through them... I've found this modification to be mandatory.... The older 870's came with a metal mag follower... So basically your just correcting one of remington's cost cutting measures... My only other complaint is the J-lock on the safety... Any of the higher end guns should not have any of that crap.....

Tranks,

Wd-40 = Rusted Guns...

Oil is best!!!
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Old September 15, 2008, 09:36 PM   #14
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i'll eventually buy that mag follower but right now i'm just going to deal with it.
i wasn't really planning on buying the shotgun yet but since they were running a rebate on top of being on sale, i figured i'd better just dig a little and buy it.

if i don't get out to the range this weekend, it'll be a several weeks before i can get out there again.
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Old September 15, 2008, 09:40 PM   #15
.300 Weatherby Mag
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Tranks,

If the gun starts to not feed properly... That means the follower is starting to crack and create to much drag in the magazine... Thats your warning that its going.....
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Old September 16, 2008, 10:54 AM   #16
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I understand the 870's have had some problems - but I still wouldn't change them right now. I see a lot of 870's that still have the original followers and they seem ok.

I understand WD-40 displaces water - its not a preservative or a rust inhibitor - but I disagree that using it will make the gun rust. Its still a good cleaner to spray on the external portion of a gun / then wipe it down before you put it in a safe. If you shot the gun wet - it has to be clean and dry before its stored / and you have to prevent condensation - or you will get rust. Clean it every time you shoot it / store in a heated and dry place if you can - and check it for rust often. There are rust inhibitors out there BoShield, etc but spraying a light coat of oil on the gun is fine too - like Rem Oil or Rig Oil willl help - but you can still get rust using them as well. There is no short cut for routine maintenance - and ideally storing your guns where you won't get any condensation will be a big help.
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Old September 18, 2008, 03:11 PM   #17
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Though you would think that WD-40 would be great for guns, it indeed is not.

Years ago I worked at a Military Rod & Gun club. We had "Club" guns to loan out. We noticed fine red rust all over the guns. We couldn't understand as they were always wiped down with WD-40 before being put in the vault.

Our gunsmith said that WD-40 was the reason, so we switched to Rig to wipe them down with and, problem solved...


Years later, when moonlighting in a local gunshop, and teaching CCW classes another instructor disagreed with my warnings about WD-40 being used on guns. It became a running argument.

I called the manufacturer, and spoke with one of the chemists in the laboratory who said that not only would it not protect against the fine rusting but that it contained ingredients that would leave a residue with repeated use.
He also cautioned that the penetrating solvent could wreak havoc with primers in ammo exposed directly to WD-40.
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Old September 20, 2008, 03:33 AM   #18
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There's a police armourer over on The Firing Line who's job it was to convert the Express to a Police model. He did hundreds and hundreds of them. He listed a few parts that should be replaced in the Express that will make it a much better gun and much closer to the quality of a Wingmaster or the Police model. Here's a copy of the relevant parts of the email he sent to me (which I have permission to share). It lists which parts he thinks should be replaced and the exact parts that he thinks should be used to replace them. BTW he suggests a plastic follower that is longer than the original follower. He also suggests a stronger mag spring and an extractor from the Wingmaster. He says the extractor in the Express is made of softer metal and will get deformed often. When I replaced mine sure enough the corners were rounded off just as I was warned and that was after only maybe 300 rounds. The new one is much harder and is still in perfect condition. I orderd my parts from Brownell and it was around $35 including shipping I believe.
As you can see not all parts need to be changed. He details when you should change them. So anyway here's the info he shared with me:

Quote:
Extractor / Extractor spring (this is the most important part change) – as a cost saving measure Remington uses a slurry metal extractor in the express this P/N 93012, if my life depended on this gun I would replace this part with a Forged Extractor P/N 16176, might as well throw in a new extractor spring P/N 17433.

Now, let’s talk about when to do this. By opening the action half way it exposes the extractor to you scrutiny, feel and look at the edge closest to the firing pin. If it does not fell sharp or looks rounded change it right now, otherwise keep checking this surface regularly.

Carrier Dog Follower Spring – I have noticed in many early Express models a problem with the action hanging or stuttering on the closing stroke (fail to feed up), this is commonly caused by the shell carrier not traveling high enough into the receiver and the shell hanging up on the bottom of the chamber. It is a common occurrence and is usually fixed by replacing with P/N 16966 a heavier version of the follower spring, Do Not change if you are not experiencing this problem, it could create a new one.

Trigger pull / sear spring - I have noticed that the nice 3 ½ pound trigger on many 870 guns seems to get mushy after a lot of use, sear spring P/N 17518 returns the trigger to a crisp release. As of last year all sear springs are the same, good news from Remington!!!! However if you have an early model Express change this part.

Magazine spring - Many times our shotguns run sluggish for no good reason. Most of the time (besides keeping the gun clean), weak magazine springs are the bad guys. Please replace your Express 5 shot magazine springs with magazine spring, Police P/N 92447. This is a much better quality part. For those of you with 8 shot tubes, I really like the Scattergun Tech stuff now owned by Wilson Combat. They make a very good, very stiff magazine spring.

Well, that’s about it for now. In closing let me remind you that I am in the personal protection business and am addressing the Express as a defense weapon. If it is a hunting gun, we can be more forgiving of the above mentioned parts.
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Old September 20, 2008, 10:16 AM   #19
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King

Thanks for the kudos. I did not convert 100's of expresses, more like 50. I did spend 15 years or so shepherding several hundred 870's through their service life, most were 870 Police and Wingmaster flavors of Remington.

Feel free to share the info and please keep me in the loop if new problems arise.

My Best To You, Bob
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Old September 20, 2008, 10:35 AM   #20
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DVC9

There seem to be a true Hate It / Love It thing going on with WD-40. To be honest my dad used wd-40 and so I started life the same way. Today, every time I smell the product a small smile comes over me and I remember my DAD.

Be that as it may, and additionally I almost never differ from BigJim, I have to side with you in the No No camp on WD-40 as a gun preservative. Tests have been done on loaded rounds and wd-40, I believe that properly seated primers in cases will not be killed by WD-40.

My best and my agencies best guess was for Sheath, it worked well, and I still have a half dozen squeeze bottles hanging around.

Good Luck & Be Safe
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Old September 20, 2008, 12:28 PM   #21
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Please...
Let's not start another WD-40 debate, here, there are other threads available. For the purposes of this thread, let's assume a Remington gun gets Rem™ Oil With TEFLON® Lubricant, or equal. And, we'll all have a different interpretation of the "or equal".

And, let's agree, not all 870's are created equally. When discussing strong and weak points, don't talk about generic 870's -- be model specific. Remember, Remington didn't cut production costs on the 870 Wingmaster to create the 870 Express simply by changing the box and receiver markings.
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Old May 23, 2014, 03:55 PM   #22
guns54
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870 express

I fould the same brown stuff all over the shot, I cleaned it with a rag frist them used a rag and oil, and it never came back, i call rem,and was told there shiped wih a fine brown oil on them. guns54. Have a safe night.
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Old May 24, 2014, 03:16 AM   #23
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6 years? Seriously, this must be some sort of record.
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Old May 24, 2014, 03:56 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brotherbadger
6 years? Seriously, this must be some sort of record.
I've seen much worse. It's not really that bad until the thread is over a decade old.

Though I have to ask the question: These people know they're resurrecting an old thread (the system warns them before they post), so why do they respond to the thread like the conversation is still going on? I'm pretty sure none of the previous posters are paying attention anymore.

But as long as I'm posting here, I might as well contribute to the thread. When I got my 870, I stripped it down, cleaned it, and heat-treated it with Froglube paste. It really smoothed out the action and made it a lot easier to clean afterward.
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Old May 25, 2014, 12:27 PM   #25
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6 year old post

Do i win a 870.? All of you were a lot of help. Have a safe day.
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