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Old May 15, 2014, 04:09 PM   #1
jeager106
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Here's a shooting "position" to consider.

I was a career police officer in a viollent hi crime rate city of about 50K
I was disabled "in the line" in '94.
When I made Lt. I was put in chage of deadly force training, read firearms.
My Sgt. & I came up with some scenereos many might not think about.
We did plenty of practice at bad breath distances & Sarge came up with one
that might very well happen.
He lay on the ground with his head towards the "bad guy" target, simulating being knocked down on his back with the bad guy intending to do
neferious things to him.
He'd shoot over his head at the "bad guy" with his duty & off duty piece.
I tried it and it's way harder than one might think.
I clear missed the bad guy several times before I learned to hit the target.
It may be a fanciful exercise but one that might happen.
One wonders what others would think if you tried this at a public range though.
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Old May 15, 2014, 04:18 PM   #2
Sharkbite
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First.. Thanks for your service

Shooting from unconventential positions has become pretty mainstream in tactical training courses. Prone, supine, on both sides, under cars, thru holes in walls. All play a part in advanced tactical training. The proper use of cover is also stressed

How about shooting someone that has grabbed you in a rear naked choke?... Its harder to do then you might think. On your back with an attacker on top of you?? You on top of them??
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Old May 16, 2014, 12:53 AM   #3
jeager106
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I had a situation, the one that ended my career, when NOT going for my pistol was the right thing to do. ( I think )
I was 48, 5'10, 170, "he" was 23, 6-2, 220 & stoned on crack.
I had secured a warrent for him for aggrevated robbery, spotted him in the hood. He ran, I chased without a prayer of catching him but he tripped & I was on him, but who had who?
He was whooping me pretty bad & actually lifting me off the ground a bit with the butt of the pistol which was in a retention holster.
I thought for a second about shooting him (disparity of force & size etc) but figured as beat as I was & strong, young, stoned as he was it was likely he'd rip the gun away & shoot me with it.
I managed to get him in the "choke" hold, really a sleeper hold, & put him out.
I had a broken back, both knees blown out but didn't know it at the time.
That was my last arrest.
I spent 9 months, 5 days a week, in rehab getting use of the left leg back.
Maybe I could have shot him, maybe not.
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Old May 16, 2014, 07:57 AM   #4
kraigwy
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I think its critical to learn to shoot, on your back, setting in a chair, couch, and seat belted in a car.

In my ladies shooting class I had the women lay on their back as if they were knocked on their butts at an ATM.

Hitting the target wasn't that big of a deal, getting to the handgun was the problem, many had to change their method of carry.

The problem, shooting up at that angle met holes in the ceiling. I had to wait on that scenario until the weather warmed up and we could move the class outside.

Quote:
How about shooting someone that has grabbed you in a rear naked choke?... Its harder to do then you might think. On your back with an attacker on top of you?? You on top of them??
PERSONAL DEFENSE NETWORK had an excellent video covering just that, I wont go into it because its THEIR video. I would recommend checking it out. They also have plenty other great videos covering other aspects of self defense.
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Old May 16, 2014, 01:20 PM   #5
Erno86
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I believe its called: the supine position...yet you'll have to spread your legs wide, and angle the feet outwards too avoid shooting off your own body parts. Magpull has a DVD section on it --- using a AR rifle with a single point sling --- though they recommend shooting the rifle with the arms extended; and not shouldering the piece --- almost the same as shooting a pistol.

I personally would use it for close range shots only...since a longer range shot, on level ground, will have the muzzle pointed to near too your legs or feet.

The Creedmoor position also comes to mind.
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Old July 6, 2014, 07:36 AM   #6
4V50 Gary
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Years ago I wanted to train my shooters to fire from their back. The trouble with that is the angle of the firearm. They'd have to be close to the berm to ensure that no bullet competes with NASA and soars over the berm to space and beyond.
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Old July 11, 2014, 02:47 PM   #7
SIGSHR
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Read McGivern's
Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting, he demonstrates some unconventional positions, but has the targets to back them up. I recall an article in a martial arts magazine years ago comparing various styles, had "On the Street" situations and scenarios, one of which was "When thrown to the ground." Be Prepared.
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Old July 11, 2014, 03:12 PM   #8
zincwarrior
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Quote:
Years ago I wanted to train my shooters to fire from their back. The trouble with that is the angle of the firearm. They'd have to be close to the berm to ensure that no bullet competes with NASA and soars over the berm to space and beyond.
Alternatively one could do that with a simple airsoft gun if resources are not available otherwise, even in your den.
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Old January 16, 2015, 01:41 AM   #9
Jeff22
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shooting from positions of disadvantage

Shooting from positions of disadvantage (aka "Downed Officer Drills") are a great thing to do with AirSoft guns. You can practice anywhere, and prepare yourself for a circumstance where you can do it live fire safely.
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Old January 16, 2015, 02:39 AM   #10
hartcreek
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You could also use that plastic training ammo that only uses a primer in an indoors range.
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Old January 16, 2015, 10:02 AM   #11
g.willikers
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Quote:
The problem, shooting up at that angle met holes in the ceiling. I had to wait on that scenario until the weather warmed up and we could move the class outside.
The folks who live down wind from the range might have something to say about that.
"Ma', is that rain I hear hitting the roof?"

Divots out of the floor are also possible.
Using Airsoft would seem to be a safe way to avoid the potential dangers.
Then going real slow at first with live fire, so as to assure accurate hits.
Then speed up as skills progress.
That's the way it was approached here, and no holes where they shouldn't be.
Just a thought.
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Old January 16, 2015, 02:48 PM   #12
Kosh75287
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Wow...

SUPERB thinking, all around. We KNOW that armed people can get knocked on their posteriors any time, but who TRAINS for a response to it? In the process of training shooters to respond to the situation, eventually, better responses might be found, also.
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