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Old April 27, 2014, 01:04 AM   #1
Tangentabacus
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Sugestions for first supressor

Hey everyone,

Looking to buy my first suppressor this summer but I have a few things that I want. Quick detach, work for .308 and my .223 (maybe 7.62x39 as well), and my budget limit is like $500~800.

I don't are much about size, weight, or anything else special like that. The main gun it will be on is probably my AR, but having it work well on my .308 (i.e. not impacting accuracy too much).

So far I am looking at YHM as my first choice as best bang for buck.
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Old April 27, 2014, 03:28 AM   #2
Theohazard
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YHM makes good stuff, but -- in my opinion -- the best bang-for-your-buck BY FAR is the Silencerco Specwar 7.62. It's super-quiet, it has a rock-solid mounting system (many other quick-attach mounting systems have some play), it comes with a mount, and the baffles are made from stellite, which is stronger than any material used by any other company (even stronger than inconel), and it's even rated for 300 Win Mag.

The only real downside of the Specwar is it's longer (and therefore heavier) than most quick-attach 7.62 silencers. For some people that's a downside, and that's why they look to other models. But if size and weight don't matter, the Specwar is definitely the way to go. And the extra length is what makes it quieter than most other 7.62 suppressors. And best of all, it's fairly cheap; MSRP is $899 but you should be able to find it for less than that; SilencerShop.com has them for $720, mount included.
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Last edited by Theohazard; April 27, 2014 at 03:36 AM.
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Old April 27, 2014, 03:34 AM   #3
Theohazard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangentabacus
not impacting accuracy too much
A silencer will almost always change your bullets' point-of-impact a little bit, but it rarely will hurt accuracy. In fact, a silencer can increase accuracy by improving barrel harmonics.
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Old April 27, 2014, 04:26 AM   #4
tmorone
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First off- thumbs up for thinking ahead and leaning for a 308 can rather than .223/5.56. My first was an AAC M4-2000 (5.56) and as soon as the stamp came I wished it was capable of 308!

Surefire is fantastic, but way expensive. The silencerco saker's are very nice as are the AAC SDN-6 cans. Personally, I'd go for the AAC for versatility/size/weight. It will mount to any of the fast attach mounts between guns of different calibers and is about 1" longer than the 5.56 can.

Also, be mindful that AAC stuff is "fast ATTACH" but can sometimes be a pain to remove. The saker's have sever different mounting options that can save you money and make the more expensive can worth it. I have AAC mounts on all my guns and at ~$100 a pop it gets expensive. Their brakes and flash hiders are excellent but it's a cost that can sting. Cool thing with sakers is you can do the standard "A2" mount, and if you want some sort of brake/FH the battlecomp is available. Gives you range from $5-150 rather than the required AAC ratchet mount.
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Old April 27, 2014, 06:57 AM   #5
Tangentabacus
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Anything in my criteria that is rebuildable? That's one of those things that baffles me (no pun intended) that you buy something so expensive and you can't replace the parts easily.
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Old April 27, 2014, 08:19 AM   #6
Theohazard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmorone
Personally, I'd go for the AAC for versatility/size/weight. It will mount to any of the fast attach mounts between guns of different calibers and is about 1" longer than the 5.56 can.
The only advantage of the AAC SDN-6 over the Specwar is size and weight, and he mentioned he didn't care about size and weight. The Specwar is cheaper, quieter, more durable, has less gas blow-back, and has the exact same interchangeability between 5.56 and 7.62 mounts as AAC does. In fact, the Specwar mounts more solidly with zero play, but the AAC 51T mount often has a little rotational play to it. Don't get me wrong, the SDN-6 is a great can (I have one), but the Specwar is better in every way except for weight and overall length.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmorone
Cool thing with sakers is you can do the standard "A2" mount, and if you want some sort of brake/FH the battlecomp is available.
There is no Saker MAAD mount available for the standard A2 flash hider. Early on, there was talk about SilencerCo making one, but since then I haven't heard it mentioned and I think it's unlikely they'll offer it any time soon. So far, they only offer five different MAAD mounts: One for their Saker Trifecta, one for their Specwar Trifecta, one for the ACC 51T, one for the YHM Y-Mount, and a direct-thread mount.
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Old April 27, 2014, 08:57 AM   #7
Theohazard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangentabacus
Anything in my criteria that is rebuildable? That's one of those things that baffles me (no pun intended) that you buy something so expensive and you can't replace the parts easily.
You don't want or need a rifle suppressor that can be rebuilt. Most rifle suppressors are sealed, and that makes them stronger and simpler (and therefore lighter) than if they could be disassembled by the consumer. Considering high-end rifle silencers are made of inconel (or, in SilencerCo's case, stellite) they're already heavy enough. So making them even heavier isn't very popular with the consumer.

You don't need to clean the internals of a rifle can, so the only reason to make it able to be disassembled is for the customer to be able to rebuild it, but that wouldn't be legal: It's against the law for someone to have any extra silencer parts. He would have to send it in to the manufacturer to rebuild it anyways. And considering modern rifle silencers last for many tens of thousands of rounds, most people will never shoot them enough to need a re-build: You'll shoot your barrel out long before you shoot out your suppressor.

That said, there are some companies that sell rifle silencers that can easily be disassembled and rebuilt by the manufacturer. But they tend to be louder and heavier, so I would never own one.
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Old April 29, 2014, 07:00 AM   #8
Elkins45
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Quote:
You don't want or need a rifle suppressor that can be rebuilt.
You do if you ever want to shoot cast lead through it. The main reason I bought a silencer was so I could use it on my 300 blackout rifle, and I mostly school cast lead bullets in it. After a couple of hundred rounds it needs a good cleaning, so I'm glad I bought one that can be taken apart. I suppose there are probably lighter and better performing cans on the market, but I'm willing to make that trade off so I can shoot my homemade cheap ammo.
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Old April 29, 2014, 09:17 AM   #9
Theohazard
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True, but the majority of people don't shoot cast lead bullets in their rifles, so the market for serviceable rifle cans is very small.
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Old April 29, 2014, 09:25 AM   #10
Theohazard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmorone
The silencerco saker's are very nice as are the AAC SDN-6 cans. Personally, I'd go for the AAC for versatility/size/weight.
I missed this earlier, but it looks like you're directly comparing the Saker and the SDN-6? But the Saker is FAR more versatile than the SDN-6 in every way; it will mount to any muzzle device the SDN-6 will mount to, but it has four other MAAD mounts available. So it's basically five times more versatile. Also, it's a little bit shorter than the SDN-6 and weighs the exact same.

So if you're using versatility/size/weight to decide between the two, the Saker wins hands-down.
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Old April 29, 2014, 08:20 PM   #11
Elkins45
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Quote:
True, but the majority of people don't shoot cast lead bullets in their rifles, so the market for serviceable rifle cans is very small.
With the price and availability of jacketed bullets I think it's something more people might be looking into. Or at least they should. There's just something fun and satisfying about touching off a big ol' 200 grainer without earplugs and hearing it go THWACK against the berm at 100 yards. It's even more satisfying to know you're only paying $0.10 per round to do it.
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Old April 30, 2014, 03:44 PM   #12
Theohazard
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Yeah, for 300 Blackout the extra strength of a welded can isn't as important. But if you're shooting a lot of rapid-fire 5.56 or 7.62 (especially out of an SBR), you probably want a fully-welded inconel can (or stellite, if you're buying from Silencerco). Stainless and titanium baffles erode more quickly under heavy use, and take-apart cans don't handle the abuse of full-power rifle rounds as well as sealed cans (and, as far as I know, no one makes a take-apart inconel rifle can).

But it all comes down to personal preference. Me, I prefer having a stronger, more durable silencer that will stand up better to rapid-fire and SBR use, and I don't mind having to shoot jacketed bullets because of that. But if you want the ability to shoot cast bullets and .22 at the expense of having a can that's less durable (and often louder), then companies like Liberty and Thompson Machine offer some good options.
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Old May 2, 2014, 08:27 PM   #13
tmorone
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Theo,

I can't believe they canx'ed the A2 mount, that was something I really liked about the Saker. But no doubt, the mounting options are still light years beyond the single choice you get with AAC.

As for versatility- that was more regarding the 7.62 vs. 5.56 option than it was Saker vs. SDN-6. My bad, I was vague with that part.

Have you had wobbly 51T mounts? My two AAC cans both lock up really tight with no play but I have heard exactly what you described with several other people. Maybe I just lucked out and got a couple good ones. Saker's do seem to have a stronger mount (or engineered better) that reminds me of how the surefire mounts with the cam lock.

Edited to add: is there any gain with the Saker weight? They have been coming out with so much stuff (ie, Hunter) that it's getting hard to keep them all straight. If the weight gave the ability to shoot some higher pressure rounds than the AAC (above 308) it would be much more worth the weight.
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Old May 3, 2014, 12:20 AM   #14
Theohazard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmorone
I can't believe they canx'ed the A2 mount, that was something I really liked about the Saker.
Yeah, I don't know if they still intend to make it eventually or not. The problem with designing a silencer that mounts on a standard A2 flash hider is that you usually have to design the baffles with a bigger bore to compensate for mis-alignment, and that makes the silencer louder. Even if you require the user to replace the crush washer, the A2 flash hider isn't as precisely machined as a proprietary QD mount, so it's still more likely to cause the silencer to be slightly out of alignment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmorone
Have you had wobbly 51T mounts?
Oh yeah. In my experience about 3 out of 4 mounts are wobbly straight out of the package. And that's from testing literally hundreds of them; I used to work at an 07/02 and when I sold a 51T AAC can I would often go through our supply of mounts and find one that fit without a wobble.

But after a while I realized this was mostly pointless; the wobble often changes the more you mount and un-mount the can and you put wear on the ratchet system. When I first bought my SDN-6 I found a Blackout mount with zero wobble, but now that I've had it for a while it wobbles a bit. It's not a really big deal, and it tends to go through cycles of being wobbly and then tight as the ratchet system on the can wears along with the teeth on the mount. But you can slow down the wear by pressing the ratchet latch while screwing on the can.

I know a few people who have never had wobble issues at all, but they're in the minority. And the wobble issues seem to be a little more prevalent with the flash hider mounts than the muzzle brake mounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmorone
Edited to add: is there any gain with the Saker weight? They have been coming out with so much stuff (ie, Hunter) that it's getting hard to keep them all straight. If the weight gave the ability to shoot some higher pressure rounds than the AAC (above 308) it would be much more worth the weight.
The Saker weighs less than an ounce more than the SDN-6, so for all intents and purposes they're the same weight. But the Saker is rated for 300 Win Mag and the SDN-6 isn't, probably because of its stellite baffles, which are stronger than inconel.

Silencerco hasn't come out with any new stuff recently other than the 7.62 Saker and the Harvester (the Hunter is from AAC). But their product line appeared to get bigger because they finally merged the SWR product line into their own: Silencerco has owned SWR for several years, but until late last year they officially kept the product lines separate even though they were both made in the same place.

I love my SDN-6 and I'm totally happy with it. But if I were making the choice now I'd pick the 7.62 Saker: It has several advantages over the SDN-6 without a single disadvantage (unless you count the fact that it weights 0.7 ounces more).
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Old May 10, 2014, 09:12 PM   #15
Sgt Pepper
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I finally had a chance today to take my AR15 and Specwar out to the range. I LOVE IT! It is really quiet, and I did not experience any blowback. I use the Specwar trifecta flash hider to mount it, and mounting and dismounting couldn't be any easier. Really, I couldn't be any happier with the Specwar.
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