The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > NFA Guns and Gear

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 7, 2014, 05:31 PM   #1
Machineguntony
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 22, 2013
Posts: 541
Silencer ablatives

I have been enjoying my new NFA toys. I've been practically spoiled and really loving my new hobby.

What do you guys use for ablatives?

Anyone have any secrets?
__________________
Stop and smell the roses - origin unknown
Machineguntony is offline  
Old May 7, 2014, 06:34 PM   #2
MoGas1341
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 16, 2013
Location: Missouri
Posts: 159
I just learned a new term from you... "ablatives" (in reference to firearms)Last I heard this term used was in High School AP English in reference to the Latin language.

Though I am NOT speaking from experience, it intrigued me so I started looking online for info on this. I am thinking of getting a suppressor for my Glock, not an NFA firearm (though I'd love to have one!). From what I dug up, according to Gemtech, you shouldn't run a suppressor 'wet'

http://www.gem-tech.com/store/pc/GEM...-A-Q-d7.htm#24

As far as a form of heat shielding we used in the Marine Corps for .50 cal, though it isn't SOP, was 15-40 Diesel Engine oil on the barrel, and that was only under dire circumstances when we were really putting the heat to it! Just my 2 cents, and I'm very interested to see who posts what on this thread.

Good Luck
__________________
Former USMC Engineer, Iraq War Vet, Afghanistan War Vet, NRA Life Member
MoGas1341 is offline  
Old May 7, 2014, 09:16 PM   #3
Theohazard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2012
Location: Western WA
Posts: 2,320
Help me out here. I have no idea what an ablative is when it comes to silencers. I've even Googled the word and I'm still having a hard time figuring it out.

The best I can determine is that a silencer ablative is something that reduces wear:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ablation

Is that the case?
__________________
0331: "Accuracy by volume."
Theohazard is offline  
Old May 7, 2014, 10:57 PM   #4
Machineguntony
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 22, 2013
Posts: 541
http://www.silencerresearch.com/sile...efinitions.htm

I am not an expert on silencers, but I do like to learn about things. Here is what I know from my research.

An ablative is a cooling medium, such as water, oil, or anything that can cool a silencer.

The sound of muzzle blast is kinetic energy expressed as sound waves. The way a silencer works is that the silencer takes some of the kinetic energy and turns the kinetic energy into heat energy, thereby reducing muzzle blast.

An ablative, such as water, works by allowing the silencer to have a higher heat absorption threshold, thereby allowing the silencer to convert more kinetic energy into heat energy. With more kinetic energy turned into heat energy, there is less kinetic energy to expand the air around the muzzle of the gun/silencer. With less kinetic energy to expand the air, there is a smaller 'pocket' of collapsing air that creates the thunderclap that we know as 'muzzleblast'. This results in a quieter gunshot sound.

My goal of experimenting with an ablative medium was to find something that will hold the maximum amount of heat possible, given equal volume.

I have really been enjoying my new toys and I have experimenting with my favorite ablative medium.

So far, my favorite is hand sanitizer. Hand sanitizer is less messy than water, and seems to last longer; about five shots until it loses all sound reduction ability. Hand sanitizer is also neutral on the grip. An ablative, like motor oil, gets the gun really slippery, and a slippery gun is pretty dangerous, especially if the gun is a machine gun.

Hair gel, I do not like, as the hair gel does the opposite of oil: it makes the gun unbearably sticky.

Water is free as an ablative but it has the downside of being really messy. When I say messy, I mean that there is ejection of water, mixed with gunpowder, out the back of the ejection port. This happens whether it is a pistol or rifle. A thicker ablative does't splatter as badly because it is thicker. Water just flies all over the place. By the time I was done shooting about 200 rounds, I had black freckles all over my face and arms.

So after doing some reading about how ablatives work, I came up with an idea. I used canola oil because it has a really high smoking point. The canola oil didn't work any better than regular oil. Upon further research, my guess is that a higher smoke point does not equate to a higher heat retention ability.

So my next experiment was to try ice cold water. The ice cold water was the best ablative. It lasted the most shots before losing effectivenes (about 10 shots). It also had the greatest sound reduction.

Ice water, while an awesome ablative, is a pain to carry around and maintain its temperature prior to use, obviously. So it has significant downsides.

Btw, I would measure my sound reduction via an app. I can not vouch for the accuracy of these apps, but they're available in the Apple store, if anyone wants to try.

On a side note, shooting the ice cold water ablative brought a rather interesting observation. I shot the ice cold water in a subsonic 45 and a supersonic 9mm load. I never understood what people meant when they were talking about 'subsonic' ammo, but the sonic boom created by the bullet's flight is actually nearly as loud as the muzzle blast itself, maybe 50% of the noise component (a guess). The suppressed subsonic 45 was significantly quieter than a suppressed supersonic 9mm. I could hear the sonic boom of the 9mm.

Also, with the .45, the loudest sound was the thud of the bullet hitting the backstop.

Very interesting stuff.

I am not saying any of the above is correct. I am learning as I go, so if anyone can correct me or provide clarifyng info, I would really appreciate it.
__________________
Stop and smell the roses - origin unknown

Last edited by Machineguntony; May 7, 2014 at 11:14 PM.
Machineguntony is offline  
Old May 7, 2014, 11:12 PM   #5
Machineguntony
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 22, 2013
Posts: 541
From my understand about using ablatives, i.e., running it 'wet', I think that running it wet will shorten the lifespan or damage the durability of the suppressor. By using something that cools a metal, which has absorbed the heat energy, quicker than normal, it will eventually make the metal brittle. It's like dunking the suppressor in ice water when it gets hot. You will be affecting the metal's durability, and possibly the shape of the suppressor, as it may start to warp. Running a wet suppressor isn't as extreme as dunking it in ice water, but over time, it would probably have the same effect.

Again, that is just my hypothesis from what I have learned.
__________________
Stop and smell the roses - origin unknown
Machineguntony is offline  
Old May 8, 2014, 01:05 AM   #6
Theohazard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2012
Location: Western WA
Posts: 2,320
Ahhh, we troglodytes just call it "running it wet". I'm not a big fan of shooting my silencers wet. It's messy and it's a pain to clean. Sometimes I'll use water, but that's just because it's easy. Mostly I shoot dry.
__________________
0331: "Accuracy by volume."
Theohazard is offline  
Old May 8, 2014, 11:29 AM   #7
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2002
Location: alaska
Posts: 3,212
Whats the measurable difference in dB between shooting wet vs dry?
__________________
"Every man alone is sincere; at the entrance of a second person hypocrisy begins." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kierkegaard
spacemanspiff is offline  
Old May 8, 2014, 11:34 AM   #8
Indi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2011
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 221
I use wire pulling gel in my sparrow and osprey. Helps alot with frp. Gets really messy though. Don't use it much, if ever.
__________________
I dont understand why people get addicted to drugs, when they can get addicted to guns instead!!
Indi is offline  
Old May 8, 2014, 03:46 PM   #9
Machineguntony
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 22, 2013
Posts: 541
The difference is about 3-9 decibels depending on the ablative, how much ablative you use, and how many shots you take until you refill the silencer.

With ice cold water, about 5 ccs (I was told not to use more or else you risk the water blocking the projectile's flight path), I got 5-9 decibel reduction on the first shot. The gun was really quiet. Since the water was ice cold, it lasted longer before it lost all effectiveness. It lasted 5-10 shots.

With regular water, after the first shot, the sound reduction dropped by more than half, to less than 5 decibel reduction. Regular water only lasted about 4-5shots before it lost all effectiveness, probably from the water being blown out or the water reaching a temperature equilibrium with the silencer.

You always get the most reduction on the first shot.
__________________
Stop and smell the roses - origin unknown
Machineguntony is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.07814 seconds with 9 queries