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Old April 19, 2014, 05:23 PM   #1
skizzums
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drop-safe shotguns

hey guys/gals, i was watching a youtube compilation of "gun fails", and 3 of the clips were of people dropping or just falling from a leaning wall, a shotgun, and they went off.
I had no idea they were this easy to have an AD, i dont really know how the saftey works on my h&r pardner pump, but if i have the trigger saftey on, would this still happen? whats a fix to keep a round chambered and have it be "drop safe"
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Old April 19, 2014, 05:55 PM   #2
mete
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Many shotguns have been made by putting in a trigger block safety. It blocks only the trigger. If internal parts like sears are worn the gun may fire despite a trigger block "safety "!
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Old April 19, 2014, 10:13 PM   #3
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Many shotguns are not "drop safe", as they have no internal device to prevent the firing pin from touching the primer.

This means that if sufficient force is applied from a butt strike or dropping it, inertia can cause the firing pin to strike the primer with enough force to set it off.

This is also the case with many "military style" rifles that have a free floating firing pin, even though the safety is on, the firing pin is free to move forward and touch the primer.
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Old April 19, 2014, 11:51 PM   #4
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Mossbergs have an actual firing-pin block, or something like it ... not sure about others.
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Old April 20, 2014, 01:28 AM   #5
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Are you certain about that?
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Old April 20, 2014, 08:53 AM   #6
skizzums
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so pretty much, there is no way to tell if my would be 100% safe? i should just not keep it chambered if i am just leaning against the wall
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Old April 20, 2014, 09:14 AM   #7
TXAZ
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so pretty much, there is no way to tell if my would be 100% safe?
Unless you know what to look for and how to analyze a particular weapon, you are correct.
And taking Internet advice you may bet your life on is closer to crazy.
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Old April 20, 2014, 09:22 AM   #8
big al hunter
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so pretty much, there is no way to tell if my would be 100% safe? i should just not keep it chambered if i am just leaning against the wall
That is the only guaranteed....100%... safe way to store any gun. And it is one of the safety rules that will prevent accidents, keep the chamber empty into you are ready to fire.

This will also stop inexperienced shooters from picking up a loaded gun.
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Old April 20, 2014, 12:26 PM   #9
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alright, thanks guys/gals
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Old April 20, 2014, 01:44 PM   #10
Virginian-in-LA
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Anything I am using for defense - rifle, handgun, or shotgun - will be fully loaded. I have heard too many horror stories about people being killed with unloaded guns.
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Old April 20, 2014, 03:13 PM   #11
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i agree, but this is not my go-to defense gun, its there if i can get to it

generally, i will be using a pistol if ever in a SD situation, those do stay ready-to-roll
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Old April 20, 2014, 05:40 PM   #12
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I don't trust safeties, they can lead to a false sense of security. As Big Al said, "…keep the chamber empty until ready to fire."
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Old April 20, 2014, 06:42 PM   #13
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I have a HD shot gun in my house hanging on the bedroom wall. It a model 97 Winchester, which is about as safe of a shotgun you can have. There is no button type safety, half cock position is safe. The one down side to it is that the hammer is small, and when cocking it, there is a chance depending on thumb strength, and dexterity, that your thumb can slip off and cause an AD. But a simple solution is to put a hammer spur on it that eliminates the problem. As far as that goes, having the chamber empty and having to jack a round in the chamber, in a dark or dimly lighted room, nothing sounds as BAD ASS as a model 97 being brought to battery. No other gun even comes close to the clack clatter clack sound of the model 97. It is definitely an authoritative sound.
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Old April 20, 2014, 07:47 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Lucas McCain View Post
I have a HD shot gun in my house hanging on the bedroom wall. It a model 97 Winchester, which is about as safe of a shotgun you can have. There is no button type safety, half cock position is safe. The one down side to it is that the hammer is small, and when cocking it, there is a chance depending on thumb strength, and dexterity, that your thumb can slip off and cause an AD. But a simple solution is to put a hammer spur on it that eliminates the problem. As far as that goes, having the chamber empty and having to jack a round in the chamber, in a dark or dimly lighted room, nothing sounds as BAD ASS as a model 97 being brought to battery. No other gun even comes close to the clack clatter clack sound of the model 97. It is definitely an authoritative sound.
Don't understand why people with home defense shotgun don't already have one chambered and ready to go. Why the extra step?
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Old April 20, 2014, 10:42 PM   #15
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There's virtually no delay. Just shouldering the gun takes half a second. I've run it against the timer and the delay is insignificant.

No, most pump shotguns aren't drop safe. 870's, Mossberg 500's, 97s, Model 12s
Model 37s, 520/30s, they all can fire if dropped on the muzzle. The easiest course of action is to leave the chamber empty, hammer down, and mag loaded.
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Old April 22, 2014, 01:04 AM   #16
Dreaming100Straight
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"Mossbergs have an actual firing-pin block, or something like it ... not sure about others. "

Wrong. With the safety on, the connector keeps the trigger block from rotating so that the trigger may be pulled so as to release the sear holding the hammer down. If you drop or the gun is otherwise suddenly jostled, that sear can still slip off of the hammer.

Last edited by Dreaming100Straight; April 22, 2014 at 01:53 AM.
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Old April 22, 2014, 05:28 AM   #17
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That scary "clack, clack" may not be so great if the bad guy happens to have an AR15 or an AK. He will know right where to spray. And cheap mil surplus FMJ rounds go right thru sheet rock. The "hold the gun sideways bad ass gang bangers" won't even know what it is, but they will know where it is.
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Old April 22, 2014, 09:19 AM   #18
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My "ready" mode for my 870 is: Stored with chamber empty as below......

On an EMPTY chamber,
*slide closed
*trigger pulled
*safety on
*magazine full

To fire......
*pick up shotgun
*rack the slide
(no slide release buttons need to be depressed, because the trigger has been pulled)
* aim and take off safe...fire

In the locking shotgun rack in a police car they are stored the same way (empty chamber, trigger pulled, on safe)
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Old April 22, 2014, 09:30 AM   #19
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I don't lean a loaded long gun on anything, as said, they are not drop safe.

I need to work more with my Ithaca 37. It has been reliable in feeding the first round by racking the pump handle; but I have observed that with rifles and pistols, the most common feed failure is the first round. A lot of guns have to be "spoon fed" the first round out of the magazine because hand cycling is different from autoloading. But then the pump is manually cycled every time. I'll do some shooting. Empiricism Rules.
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Old April 22, 2014, 09:33 AM   #20
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Quote:
Don't understand why people with home defense shotgun don't already have one chambered and ready to go. Why the extra step?
You must not have followed the rest of the thread. Most shotguns are not drop safe with a round chambered and the safety on. This can lead to NDs if the gun is leaning against the wall and falls over.
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Old April 22, 2014, 02:52 PM   #21
Dreaming100Straight
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That scary "clack, clack" may not be so great if the bad guy happens to have an AR15 or an AK. He will know right where to spray. And cheap mil surplus FMJ rounds go right thru sheet rock. The "hold the gun sideways bad ass gang bangers" won't even know what it is, but they will know where it is.
Isn't this getting a bit OT? The question was if a Mossberg is drop safe and it seems that all agree it is not. There are plenty of other threads on whether a pump shotgun should be kept with a round chambered.
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Old April 22, 2014, 02:57 PM   #22
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Quote:
Quote:
Don't understand why people with home defense shotgun don't already have one chambered and ready to go. Why the extra step?
Quote:
You must not have followed the rest of the thread. Most shotguns are not drop safe with a round chambered and the safety on. This can lead to NDs if the gun is leaning against the wall and falls over.
That and the potential that someone comes along and negligently pulls the trigger on what they thought was an unloaded gun.
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Old April 22, 2014, 09:11 PM   #23
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I don't have a concern with someone pulling the trigger, but I do not want to invest in a wall-mount system just to have a shotgun be chambered. I have plenty of guns that I can safely keep chambered if I feel I need to. I just never knew just how sensitive they can be.

thanks for everyone's feedback
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Old May 11, 2014, 07:44 AM   #24
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Always know where your muzzle is and what it is pointed at.

Keep control of your gun. Do not drop it.
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Old June 3, 2014, 07:18 PM   #25
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The Mossberg is a hammer block safety. Moving it forward clears the post from the trigger bar.. I have fixed a bunch. Most use a plastic safety button with a metal plate under it to ride over the detent ball. The plastic button breaks and the detent plate, detent ball/spring all fall away. I usually replace with an all metal button.
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