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Old March 27, 2014, 11:17 AM   #76
Unlicensed Dremel
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Quote:
"they won't have the accuracy of the AR-15"

Actually, they have better accuracy than most
Really? Interesting, thank you. Which ones specifically do you find to shoot well?

Quote:
The 7600s I've shot have been MOA or better.
Hmmm, again - interesting.
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Old March 27, 2014, 04:34 PM   #77
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The most accurate I've shot were Noveske, LMT and Daniel Defense. There are others.

Glad you found my comments interesting.
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Old April 1, 2014, 06:16 AM   #78
Fatboy5108
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here in Australia the Remington 7600 and 7615 series rifles are very popular as we are'nt allowed to have semi autos here any more, i plan to make my next purchase a 7615 or 7600 police in .308. they would be great for feral pig shooting as they are nice and short and the fast follow up shots would be handy as the pigs usually live in large groups.
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Old April 3, 2014, 12:48 PM   #79
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That sounds just about perfect for a pig hunting setup. Several years ago we had a little problem with pigs and a fried of mine would bring his rem 760 .308 on his snowmobile (live in saskatchewan) ready to go if he happened upon them. He shot 8 of them over the winter that way. It can take a little abuse.
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Old April 3, 2014, 05:16 PM   #80
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The most accurate I've shot were Noveske, LMT and Daniel Defense. There are others.
Huh?

You said first:

Quote:
Actually, they have better accuracy than most
the THEY in that sentence refers to pump rifles (and specifically, I believe you meant, to a 7600). The they in that sentence does NOT refer to AR15s.

So why are you now mentioning AR15s? Your claim, to rebut mine about AR15s, is that *they* (pumps) actually have better accuracy than *most* AR15s. Which I have no reason to disbelieve, having never had a 7600 or other pump bottlenecked-centerfire.

So I said "interesting; thanks; which ones?" (meaning which pumps are more accurate than most AR15s?)

Then I realized you were talking about 7600s, so I edited to show you that I saw that and said thanks again, because I answered my own question. (well, you answered it in a separate place in the thread)

So the end result is (I thought) that you were saying 7600s are more accurate than MOST AR15s...is that not what you're saying?

Because if so, although I still have no reason to disbelieve it, it would be a little bit surprising if you're saying that a 7600 is more accurate than those specific high-quality AR15s you mention.

So what ARE you saying - AR15s more accurate or 7600s more accurate? The conventional wisdom is that 7600s ain't all that accurate, which is why I found your claim to the contrary to be "interesting" (in light of the fact that AR15s have a reputation for being accurate).

Maybe you're saying 7600s are more accurate than MOST AR15s but not those 3 high-end ones?

Quote:
Glad you found my comments interesting. ROLLEYES
So you'd prefer I said that your comments were worthless and irrelevant or what?

Last edited by Unlicensed Dremel; April 3, 2014 at 05:22 PM.
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Old April 3, 2014, 05:36 PM   #81
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But, in any event, back to pumps generally.

I'm sure most everyone knows this, but in addition to pump centerfires being perhaps under-appreciated / under-utilized in the self-defense arena, as we talked about, I think they're also under-utilized in the rimfire arena (which of course is hunting & varmint control primarily - but also even self-defense).

Simply because if there's a rimfire dud (fairly common, relative to centerfires), just cycle it, which you cannot do on a semi-auto (well, actually you can do that on a semi-auto but not nearly as fast). Semis can be extremely reliable with centerfire ammo, but they're only as reliable as the weakest link, which is definitely the ammo, in the case of rimfire. But with a pump, you have nearly the speed of a semi-auto with much faster malf. clearing than a semi. Still, the need for speed is rare in rimfire hunting & rimfire pest control scenarios, but I suppose it could happen here and there - espec. pest control uses.

I might argue that pumps are the best "fit" when utilized in these areas, roughly in order of best uses:
1. Centerfire, self-defense use
2. Rimfire, all uses (primarily pest control, but perhaps even self-defense). And in fact, a pretty good argument can be made that if you could only have ONE rimfire, it should be a pump. But to me, the downside is hard to clean, relative to a turnbolt.
3. Centerfire, hunting large game

I have said that for the extremely-recoil-sensitive person, a .22 magnum rimfire rifle is probably the best self-defense longgun, but given the relative unreliability of rimfire ignition, this should take one of two forms:
--Rossi Circuit Judge .22 WMR
--Pump of some kind .22 WMR

In either case, you don't even have to *think* at all about HOW to clear a malf. in order to keep shooting if there's a dud, let alone actually having to clear the malf. You simply do the same thing you were going to do anyway - keep right on going (in the case of the revolver rifle, just keep on pulling the DA trigger; in the case of the pump, keep cycling and pulling trigger, dud or no dud).

Bottom line, I find it hard to believe that pumps aren't still more popular *generally*, especially in rimfires, but not all that hard to believe they've fallen out of favor in the large game hunting arena (at least here where semis are legal, as our Aussie friend pointed out is not always the case).

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Old April 4, 2014, 12:02 AM   #82
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I used pump 12 gauge shotguns for decades until my flinch got so bad, I had to switch to autos for waterfowl. The switch was a great improvement in my shooting, damn those 12 gauge loads kick.

But I always liked shucking those shells and considering how few shots one takes at big game, again I'd buy one if they didn't clatter while just walking about.

Some day I may just find one that doesn't clatter, I'll keep looking.

PS I've been looking for a short rifle that will shoot 44 mag semi-wadcutters religiously. So in the vein of what does ghuiazk want for manufacturers to produce for approximately one to ten customers, the demand, a pump action 44 mag with reliability of semi-wadcutter, a 20 inch barrel and no clatter.

Manufacturers are lining up right now to supply this monumental need.

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Old April 4, 2014, 06:09 PM   #83
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I have said that for the extremely-recoil-sensitive person, a .22 magnum rimfire rifle is probably the best self-defense longgun, but given the relative unreliability of rimfire ignition.......
Having seen the M-16 in full auto fire with the buttstock on various sensive parts of the demonstrator's anatomy (nose, groin, etc), I know the 5.56 in an AR produces almost no recoil at all.

AR in 5.56>.22WMR in just about every respect save they don't offer them in what apparently is your pet action type (pump) .....
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Old April 6, 2014, 07:49 PM   #84
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My brother-in-law recently hunted bison at Twin Pines Ranch in Wyoming. He borrowed a Remington 760 in 30-06. He hunted with 220 grain FEDERAL ammo featuring a Premium bullet. Two good chest shots at approx. 125 yards got the job done!

Bison meat is amazing and good for you, too!

Jack
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Old April 7, 2014, 09:11 PM   #85
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Having seen the M-16 in full auto fire with the buttstock on various sensive parts of the demonstrator's anatomy (nose, groin, etc), I know the 5.56 in an AR produces almost no recoil at all
Yessir, good point - which would make that the best choice for the recoil-sensitive. Add the word "extremely" in there, as I did, and you're back to .22 mag.
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Old April 7, 2014, 09:51 PM   #86
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Just had to double-check on availability. Browning is still cataloging their BPR for sale in .270 .308 .30-06 and .300 mag. By the way, that BPR stands for Browning Pump Rifle. I understand they do sell well in countries where semi-auto is a no-no...
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Old April 8, 2014, 08:04 AM   #87
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I didnt know Browning had a pump centerfire!
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