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Old March 8, 2014, 10:50 AM   #26
Brian Pfleuger
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I would like a Hot Rod 6mm.....so which one?

The .243AI is essentially a mainstream round in terms of dies. There's not a ton of selection but you really only need one, right? .243Win Lee collet neck die and .243AI Redding body die, $57 and you're done.

That alone would decide for me. It's so close to the CM also be irrelevant. It's really not enough different from the Win to matter, except that I like to be different.
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Old March 8, 2014, 08:17 PM   #27
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Here ya go:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=398025210

Already done for ya.
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Old March 8, 2014, 09:18 PM   #28
reynolds357
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Before you build a .243WSSM, I would advise you buy some brass first. It is scarce as hens teeth at the moment.
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Old March 8, 2014, 09:24 PM   #29
Ace65
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243 and done.
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Old March 8, 2014, 11:06 PM   #30
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Sorry Ace65 and reynolds357 but it's a toss up between .243AI, 6CM or .243 Improved 30.

I'm leaning towards 6CM (Competition Match) simply because it's very descriptive of its intended use.
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Old March 9, 2014, 01:44 PM   #31
reynolds357
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You said you wanted a "hot rod" and none of the above three really fit that bill. I like them, but they are not really hot rod 6mm's.
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Old March 9, 2014, 04:04 PM   #32
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Quote:
reynolds357 said: You said you wanted a "hot rod" and none of the above three really fit that bill. I like them, but they are not really hot rod 6mm's.
I Guess "Hot Rod" could be interpreted as extreme speed. But I opened by saying
Quote:
I've started to focus more on target and competitions for extreme distance and extreme accuracy.
It is my OPINION that since the .243AI, 6CM or .243 Improved 30 degree would qualify as Hot Rods since they all push a 115 DTAC at over 3,000 fps with ease while also providing longer barrel and brass life.

But in the pure speed, the devil may care department 6 x 284,the 6 Remington and the 6-06 may be the ones to beat.
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Old March 9, 2014, 07:50 PM   #33
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6 x 300 WBY and 6RUM (full length) are the true hot rods. Wont fit in a short action though.
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Old March 9, 2014, 08:19 PM   #34
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Yes, you are right.
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Old March 10, 2014, 08:16 AM   #35
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
I'm leaning towards 6CM (Competition Match) simply because it's very descriptive of its intended use.
You do what you want but the last reason on earth I'd buy a particular round is the name they decided to put on it.

Function and lack of being a pain in the butt are top reasons. The only "personality" reason I have is that I don't like to have what everybody and their brother has. That has very real limits, though. A cartridge like the CM is way over the line. I can't even find the place that makes it. I have no interest in a cartridge that's almost entirely maintained by one guy, especially when it is SO CLOSE to both the .243Win and AI, both of which have every thing you need at MidWayUSA.
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Old March 10, 2014, 09:10 AM   #36
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Brian, you are absolutely right. It is much easier to go with the .243AI. The rational thing would be to go with the .243AI.But like you said above:

Quote:
.... except that I like to be different.
I look at it as my version of a Vanity plate that some put on their cars. Since I'm having a custom rifle, why not go all the way custom. I'm even buying a reamer and go=gauge so that in the future I can re-barrel to the same exact specs.

You also have to recall that I got confused between the 6mm AI and the .243AI back there for a while. That's when I ordered the reamer. I can still cancel it, but I'm really OK with it. I already have the die, ironically Redding doesn't call it 6 CM at all.


In all fairness names and labels do make a difference in the real world. A classic business case is the Chevy Nova, it was a success in the US but a flop in Latin America because "No Va" means "It doesn't go" in Spanish. Redding would probably sell more if it relabeled their box.
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Last edited by Eppie; March 10, 2014 at 09:37 AM.
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Old March 10, 2014, 09:51 AM   #37
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Actually the Nova sold well in Latin America according to GM sales records. That it didn't is just an urban legend according to snopes. http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/nova.asp

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Old March 10, 2014, 10:03 AM   #38
Brian Pfleuger
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I would like a Hot Rod 6mm.....so which one?

Quote:
In all fairness names and labels do make a difference in the real world.


They do, but it's not logical. You shouldn't make decisions based on such irrelevant criteria as a name. The cartridge does what it does. If you want it's performance, would you have not bought it if it was called the .243Uber? OR what if the first name you saw was the .243 EGOLF IMP? Would that have changed your mind? That's kind of silly, IMO. Buy it for what it does, not for the name.
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Old March 10, 2014, 10:06 AM   #39
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We're way off topic here.

BUT, I'm more likely to believe my marketing text books and professors than snopes (if it's on the internet it must be true...)

The fact that it was changed to Caribe speak volumes. Names do make a difference, any marketing and psychology major will tell you that. Just talk to anyone that does marketing research

I believe one of the reasons the 6 SLR is doing so well is because it is because it has Super in its name and it is easy to remember. Just like it's easier to remember 6 CM than .243 Egolf Improved. Marketing it's all about getting noticed and getting the customer to remember so they can ask for it by NAME.

The fact that I got confused between 6AI and .243AI is also proof that names make a difference. We all know that 6mm and .243 are the same thing, it was logic that confused me. NAMES make a difference.

There was an Italian restaurant in Houston called Crapito's Italian Restaurant. It had excellent food, but his owner Joe Crapito didn't see how it may impact the a customer's decision to dine there. Well it's not in business anymore.
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Last edited by Eppie; March 10, 2014 at 10:21 AM.
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Old March 10, 2014, 11:20 AM   #40
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Quote:
6 x 300 WBY and 6RUM
Wow, those are actual real things?

What do you do, re-barrel immediately after break-in? Take 3 barrels per range trip and swap them out at the bench?
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Old March 10, 2014, 12:17 PM   #41
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At some point, more powder capacity doesn't get you much of a return. We all know that. In the case of the 24 caliber, I really do think that the 243AI is about the best of the breed. Barrel life won't be forever, but it won't be over in the next month or year. And if you just have to have something with an unusual name, Mr Ackley's book will give you several choices. For instance, the forerunner of the 243 Winchester was actually developed by Warren Page and is called the 240 Page Pooper. It has a longer neck than the 243, which I think is a good thing. Then there's the 243 Reynolds Special which might be described as a 'warmer' 243AI. And there's the 243 Mashburn Improved. And my favorite 6mm name is the 240 Page Super Pooper - also an improved 243.

Personally, I'd go with the 243AI unless I wanted a cool name. My choice for that would be the 240 Page Pooper, with the longer neck. And you could change the shoulder angle a bit and rename it the 240 Eppie.
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Old March 10, 2014, 12:35 PM   #42
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UD, you can actually get about 800+ shots out of the RUM if you build it right. It has to be a SS barrel. You have to send it off to be hardened after you cut the chamber in it. The hardening process costs as much as the Lilja barrel. When it comes back, the barrel will flat eat up a reamer if you try to make any further mods. (found that out the hard/expensive way)

I have not built one of either, but know someone who has built a few of each. Rum replaced WBY several years ago.
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Old March 10, 2014, 01:14 PM   #43
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There's cryogenically treated barrels, chrome lined bores, and Melonite coated bores, all of which will significantly extend barrel life on a 'Overbore' ('Barrel burner') cartridge, at a cost, obviously. There can be other minor tradeoffs as well, it's up to the owner of the rifle to weigh the positives and negatives and make a choice for their rifle. Sometimes, it's just easier to get a 'plain old' barrel, shoot it out and replace it as needed.
I think the 'barrel burning' gets a little exaggerated, as in most cases, your barrel isn't 'fried' in 800 shots. Usually those numbers come from target shooters who want/need maximum accuracy potential. It's plausible that you can still get acceptable hunting accuracy with 2 to 3 times as many shots through a barrel, as long as you're not rapid firing and overheating the barrel.
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Old March 10, 2014, 02:01 PM   #44
Brian Pfleuger
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Marketing instructors are no less susceptible to urban legend than anyone else is. The story about the Nova simply isn't true.
http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2006/4/11/11436/6550


On the topic at hand, I didn't say marketing and names don't effect people. It's silly to let them effect you on purpose, that's the point.

Why would you intentionally let a name effect your decision? It's the same cartridge whether it's called the 6mm Competition Match or the 6mm Worthless Crap.

It's no skin off my nose, it's still a free country, we all get to use what we want. I'm just saying, such decisions should be based on the objective, not subjective names.
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Old March 10, 2014, 02:07 PM   #45
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Jdoxo, there is a new process out that is significantly better than any of the past processes. The person I know who is doing it wont tell a thing about how he does it. All I know is the barrels come back so hard you can not tool them. You can not even drill them with carbide bits. You can barely scratch them with carbide bits. If I had to guess, I would say it is a combination of heat, cryogenic, and chemical treatments. It takes him forever to get a barrel back to you when you send it to him. His process does not hurt accuracy either.
My first worry was the barrels are so hard they will be brittle and blow up. His testing has proven that to not be the case. There is definitely a chemical in the process because the outside of the barrel changes colors a bit.
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