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Old February 25, 2014, 03:53 PM   #26
Chris_B
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Is .22 Long Rifle still around?
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Old February 25, 2014, 05:56 PM   #27
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.30 Cal Auto Loader
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Old February 25, 2014, 06:01 PM   #28
David spargenator
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What about like real rifle rounds. Like 223, 243. In a concealable pistol design. Like a glock. I think if a manufacturer made something like that they'd sell a lot.
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Old February 25, 2014, 06:06 PM   #29
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im sure if a company could figure out how to fit a 223 or 243 into the grip of a glock they'd sell a crap ton.
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Old February 25, 2014, 07:35 PM   #30
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Draco

AK-47 based pistol.

225382_01_draco_pistol_7_62x29mm_11_5_in_640.jpg

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Old February 25, 2014, 10:34 PM   #31
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Old February 25, 2014, 11:13 PM   #32
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Rifle cals. in pistols has been around for a couple of hundred years the rifle cal came first the the pistol followed, .31,.36, .45, .50, .68 those are from the 1700's and late 1800's it was not uncommon for rifles and pistols to be the same cal.
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Old February 25, 2014, 11:46 PM   #33
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yeah, theres only so big you can go in the pistol grip and still be able to put your hand around it, try putting your hand around a box off 233 and add an inch for the grip(could YOU still pull the trigger?? doubt it)

also, you say that rifle rounds have so much more power, but a 223 out of a 4inch barrel would probably have similar velocity of a 357mag, but with a 55-75gr bullet
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Old February 25, 2014, 11:51 PM   #34
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i have a 458 lott pistol,
does that count
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Old February 26, 2014, 02:57 AM   #35
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BFR 45-70 from Magnum Research?
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Old February 26, 2014, 10:13 AM   #36
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Unless you want to hand load for single shot pistols like the Contender, you have to wonder why a pistol in a rifle caliber? With commercial loads, you'll lose a ton of velocity due to unburnt powder. The unburnt powder and gas will increase recoil over pistol rounds with similar weight bullets and muzzle velocities. The terminal ballistics of most commercial rifle bullets will suffer because they are designed for higher velocities and will probably perform worse than comparable pistol bullets designed for pistol velocities.

I'll give you an example. M183 rounds (55 gr. FMJ) do their damage due to fragmentation which becomes very iffy below about 2600 fps. According to Ballistics by the Inch, a 55 gr. Rem. UMC .223 round achieved a muzzle velocity of 1564 fps out of four inch test barrel and 2983 fps out of an 18 inch test barrel. Thus, shooting this bullet from a four inch barreled handgun in a defensive situation will likely result in the bullet passing through the body of the bad guy (if it doesn't hit bone) and result in much less damage than if fired from a longer barrel. A Corbon 125 gr. +P JHP from a four inch test barrel traveled at 1226 fps and I guarantee it will do more damage than the .223 from a short barrel. As others have mentioned, there's also the problem of fitting rifle bullets in a grip frame of a pistol if you want a pistol that is really concealable or carry friendly.

Now, if you just want to blast some rounds off for the fun of it, that's a different story.
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Old February 26, 2014, 02:38 PM   #37
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Big bore revolvers, loaded with heavyweight hard cast bullets, are a proven combination for hunters or others looking for handguns with the best chance of stopping dangerous animals. Look for 1980's articles by Ross Seyfried. Elmer Keith and ranchers have done similar for the big bulls and wild animals they deal with as well.

The 5" Coonan 357Magnum 1911 gets surprising results as well. Much better than we might expect.
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Old February 26, 2014, 04:46 PM   #38
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There is some hand gun that shoots rifle caliber bullets! There is some revolvers shoots 45-70 It was made in Evansville to start with 30 cal Carbine and there are others like the Dan Wesson 375 revolver so there is a lot of them if you will look around.
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Old February 26, 2014, 06:59 PM   #39
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The FN P90 was introduced in 1990. The Five-Seven pistol came out in 2000. The round was originally intended for use in the rifle and is a rifle round, albeit small.
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Old February 26, 2014, 07:43 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David spargenator
What about like real rifle rounds. Like 223, 243. In a concealable pistol design. Like a glock. I think if a manufacturer made something like that they'd sell a lot.
How in the world are you going to fit a magazine of .223 or .243 rounds into a concealable pistol design? Grab an AR-15 magazine: That would have to fit inside the grip of a handgun chambered in .223. Nobody with regular human-sized hands would be able to hold this handgun with anything resembling a normal handgun grip. And the grip for a .243 would be even bigger; about the size of an AR-10 magazine.

Also, rifle rounds have much higher chamber pressures than handguns. A .223 makes as much as 55,000 PSI and a .243 makes as much as 60,000 PSI; compare that to a 9mm's 35,000 PSI. This means you're going to need the handgun to be bigger and heavier in order to handle the higher pressure; it would almost certainly have to be gas-operated like the Desert Eagle.

So now we have a handgun that's heavier and larger than a normal handgun, and has a grip that's too large for anyone to hold. And for what? With the short barrel our rifle rounds have lost a HUGE amount of velocity and are ridiculously loud. Rifles are designed to shoot a small-caliber bullet at very high velocities out of a long barrel. But when you shorten the barrel too much you lose a large percentage of the velocity that makes rifle rounds so effective out of a normal barrel.

Rifle rounds are too long and too powerful to fit in a concealable pistol design. And with the short barrel you'd loose too much of the velocity advantage anyway. There's a reason pistol rounds are designed the way they are.
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Old February 26, 2014, 08:23 PM   #41
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Pistol sized pistol in a full-blown rifle chambering of the 223 class or higher. Seriously, the recoil would probably be enough to injure you (due to frequency if not amplitude). The blast wave would engulf your hand and burn your hairs. Even if there were some magical way it could be made strong enough, the grip would be at least 3" long, and the slide would travel about 4" or so. All this for marginally better performance, since rifle cartridges would be nearly as anemic as pistol rounds from pistol length barrels, only you'd get a ludicrous fireball in the process.

I'm not normally one for damning any type of gun as impractical, but this is even moreso than AR/AK pistols. The 30 Carbine AMT is probably the biggest you.could.possibly. make a pistol and have it be construed by anyone as a "pistol" rather than cut down rifle*


Yeah...that'll sell just like hotcakes (50BMG pistol)

The 5.7x28 really is more of a pistol round than a rifle round despite its design for the P90. Let me explain my reasoning;
1) P90 was designed as a PDW
2) PDW was defined as a stocked gun 'less than a rifle,' occupying a niche very similar to pistol caliber carbines (not SMGs)
3) With ammunition designed to be much more efficient (weight/volume) than most pistol cartridges like 9mm that are bulky due to their large calibers
4) And given select fire capability like that of SMGs simply because it is an easy and useful feature to add into guns designed in this modern era (lack of full-auto and low capacity were the primary failings of the original M1 in the PDW role)

The fact it was adapted to a pistol after the fact has no bearing on its being a pistol round (in my reasoning, at least). That said, FNH did an excellent job in developing the five-seven pistol that I enjoy shooting very much. If the PS90 were a bit more svelt (it's a very thick gun) I would own one, but instead I am left wanting

TCB

*meant in the obvious sense, not the illogical legal one
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Old February 26, 2014, 08:42 PM   #42
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The original Op stated he didn't trust a 44 mag to take down a bear.Wasn't there a polar bear taken with a 44 mag some time ago ?

Head over the the Freedom Arms Web site and look at there trophy section.

The Freedom Arms in .454 Casull has taken every thing you could hunt on the African continent. There is plenty O' Power in a 454, granted these were used by profesional hunters with well placed shots.

Really no need for a rifle round in a hand gun. If you need that kind of power use a rifle.
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Old February 26, 2014, 11:01 PM   #43
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Quote:
What about like real rifle rounds. Like 223, 243.
http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/223rifle.html
Others have already alluded to this, but here is some data to back it up. Out of typical CC barrel lengths, you'd lose half the velocity or more (compared to .223 rifles). Auto pistol cartridges such as Sig .357 can just about match--or even surpass--those velocities with bullets 2 or 3 times heavier.
http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/357sig.html

Last edited by idek; February 26, 2014 at 11:13 PM.
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Old February 27, 2014, 04:12 PM   #44
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How about an American Derringer in .45-70? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P34v983P2j4
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Old February 27, 2014, 11:42 PM   #45
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Quote:
I don't think the 5.7 counts, particularly considering that the OP mentions bear defense.
I have seen 3 Grizzly bear take downs with high capacity guns (and one I suspected was an exaggeration but done with a 45 ACP supposedly)

Two with 9mm and one with Russian 5.45.

Interesting theory that quantity is better than quality.

So far to few examples but its an interesting concept, massive trauma induced via multiple hits vs massive trauma with one hit.

I do carry the 9mm these days bear included though not like the trips of yesteryear where I was deep in the woods.

So I would not discount it, and the 5.7 would get you some great penetration.
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Old February 28, 2014, 12:47 AM   #46
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Check out the Micro AK:

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Old February 28, 2014, 02:59 AM   #47
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have you folks forgot about the Taurus Raging 223? , yeah i know it's not a pistol per se, but it does shoot rifle rounds.
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Old February 28, 2014, 11:21 PM   #48
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I own a BFR in 45-70. I think with handloading it could handle any bear on the globe.
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all 25 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple
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Old February 28, 2014, 11:44 PM   #49
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The late Clarence M. Bates made .45-70 revolvers for years. (He made other types of firearms as well; These are usually identifiable by his "CMB" mark.)
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Old March 1, 2014, 01:11 AM   #50
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I don't know if this counts, but I once had an AMT automag II. chambered for 22 WMR, a well known rifle varmint round. The gun sucked. It would jam constantly on anything but Remington gold or Hornady V Max. accuracy was random, and I swear it was as loud as a .357 mag snub. The best thing about it was you could get a foot long lick of fire out of the muzzle when you fired it, which looked cool.
I think the rifle rounds should stay in rifles.
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