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Old February 24, 2014, 03:34 PM   #26
theskydiver
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thank you all for the helpful responses.

in a decocker, is the first trigger pull more prolonged only when you have decocked it?

so far my favorite is the cz75, with the PCR being the more popular.
so the .22 kit does work for the PCR? can you put a laser on the PCR? and what kind of safety does it have?
also- how does the .22 PCR's accuracy compare to the accuracy of a mark .22?
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Old February 24, 2014, 03:55 PM   #27
Marty8613
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Witness

I have to get in on this, since you like the CZ.

Look at the Witness Compact or Carry lines. You get the CZ style and feel and the option of polymer or steel. There are also kits with different uppers to change calibers from .22lr to .45. The only ones with any consistent issues are the 10mm, so I would avoid that caliber. Warning though, there are some ugly customer service posts out there about the importer (EAA). I would not buy used as the warranty is only for the original purchaser.

I bought the full size 45 in polymer and never have had a more accurate pistol. There is a dealer in North Richland Hills Tx, that is pricing the Polymer Carry line 9mm about $339 right now. He quoted me $416 for a Compact 40S&W, but didn't have one for me to touch/feel, and I am waiting to do that before I jump.
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Old February 24, 2014, 04:31 PM   #28
RockDTMC
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The decoker puts the hammer in half cock position giving your first trigger pull more like DA.

The Kadet kit will work with the PCR. Not sure about lasers on the PCR. There is no rail, and if you found one that would work I'm not sure where you'd get a holster. The PCR has a decocker only, no safety.

FWIW the PCR is one of my favorite handguns and I carry it almost every day. Very accurate and has been 100% reliable with one of the best triggers I've felt.


Quote:
in a decocker, is the first trigger pull more prolonged only when you have decocked it?

so far my favorite is the cz75, with the PCR being the more popular.
so the .22 kit does work for the PCR? can you put a laser on the PCR? and what kind of safety does it have?
also- how does the .22 PCR's accuracy compare to the accuracy of a mark .22?
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Old February 24, 2014, 05:11 PM   #29
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I just ordered a canik 55 stingray. Its a clone of the p01 and will most likely work with cz holsters and save you quite a bit I think. Comes with a rail and is all metal.
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Old February 24, 2014, 05:49 PM   #30
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CZ-75. Probably the best overall 9mm out there. I used to carry a Sig 229, but I just like the CZ so much better. Check out the CZ999's at Classic Arms. They're going for $319 and the reviews are all very good.
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Old February 24, 2014, 06:30 PM   #31
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While I think it's a fine gun, keep in mind that the CZ999 isn't a CZ. It's a Sig P226 clone made by Zastava.
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Old February 26, 2014, 08:04 PM   #32
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I know some will disagree, however, I purchased an LC9 a few months ago as my conceal carry. I really like it, find it to be very accurate, and while I know many complain about the trigger, I don't seem to have an issue with it.
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Old March 24, 2014, 12:32 PM   #33
theskydiver
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i have pretty much decided on a CZ, probably a PCR

i really want to be able to get a .22 kit for it.

do any of the compact versions of the CZ have a manual safety?
i would like to have one just for the added safety of carrying it in my pockets.





aside from that, what do you guys think of the FN 57?
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Old March 24, 2014, 07:13 PM   #34
marine6680
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I don't recommend a single action pistol for concealed carry for a new owner/shooter.

They require more thought toward safety. Short and generally lighter trigger pull, plus need for a manual safety. For a new shooter, its one more variable to learn, on an already long list. Not to mention the need to practice the draw while disengaging the safety, regularly until it is automatic, and continued practice to keep it that way, so as to not find yourself wondering why your gun won't fire just when you need it. It can take a while to get down, and is often neglected.

1911 variants and the Sig P938 are examples.



A good Striker fired, DA/SA, or DAO are good choices.



Things to think about...

Slim single stack guns aid conceal-ability, but they can increase felt recoil.

Small guns can increase felt recoil. Sometimes its purely the smaller size meaning less grip... or the light weight. (weight helps absorb recoil)

A manual safety is not needed on a well designed striker fired, DAO, or DA/SA. (DA/SA have decockers, some have a decock/safety combo) You can find models with them, this is purely a personal choice. Many new shooters feel weird about not having a safety, due to lack of knowledge and experience, or fears instilled in them from others, media, and other sources not the best with firearms facts.

9mm is plenty caliber using modern bullets in the 124-147gr weights. Don't feel you need more. Want is another matter.

The larger calibers tend to have more felt recoil than the smaller. As weight and/or size decrease, this is exacerbated.

A pistol that is comfortable in your hand will usually be comfortable to shoot, and that helps accuracy.

A comfortable gun without any kind of stippling, or other friction/grip enhancing features, will not be as good as a comfortable pistol with.



There are several slim single stack 9s that are good choices for concealed carry. The Springfield XD-s, S&W Shield, Sig P290RS are examples. There are some models that are even smaller, Khar makes a few. Just remember the above points, as these pistols are not always a pleasure to shoot.

The Sub compact 9s from several companies are good choices. (Springfield, S&W, glock, etc) They usually come with a second magazine that has a grip extension for backup and range/home use. Downside is the shorter barrels make being accurate a little harder. Thats the trade for better conceal-ability.

One size up from that are usually considered a good overall size for conceal-ability, home and range use combined. The glock 19, Springfield compact (not sub-compact or service models) and Sig 239 are roughly the same size and in this category. (Springfield has a few XD models that are a little larger and in between the large frame size pistols and compact as well that may work well too) Longer barrels and higher mag capacity over the subs, without much added size.


For a pistol that will serve concealed carry duty, I would avoid larger. While larger can be done, the difficulty and skill/experience needed is increased.



A 22lr pistol for practice is always a good idea.



If a CZ compact variant is your plan, you should do just fine. Its in the "one size up" group I mentioned above.

They come in DA/SA with safety, or decocker. The safety version can be carried cocked and locked (hammer cocked into SA mode, and safety on) or you can manually decock the hammer and go DA/SA. The safety will not engage in DA mode.

I think the Decocker version will be the easiest to start with. Making safe is less risky for a new user... and you avoid the SA cocked and locked carry I do not recommend for new shooters/owners.



FN57...

I am not convinced. Tests seem inconsistent with penetration with the round. This is a common problem with light weight pistol rounds. Some shots will perform well and penetrate well, other times you get low penetration or other odd behavior.

This is why there is a move to heavier rounds in 9mm, 124-147gr.

The most consistent lighter weight ammo I have seen is the DRT 85gr. Most shots have the base penetrate to around 12-13 inches, with the fragmenting happening around the 2-3 inch area and extending in a similar fashion as standard HP rounds. But most is not all, and I have seen tests with multiple rounds fired show about 25% (estimated figure from memory of the tests I seen) penetrating less than optimum at around 8 to 10 inches.

The 5.7 seems to be similar from the few tests I have seen online. Some types of ammo having a mix of not enough and proper penetration, and others having a mix of good penetration and too much. The right ammo type was important for better performance... and it is harder to find 5.7 ammo.

Get the better performing ammo, and it will work well for defensive uses though. But the overall cost involved in owning and shooting one would put me off.

Last edited by marine6680; March 24, 2014 at 07:53 PM.
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Old March 26, 2014, 08:30 AM   #35
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From the 2 you list, Glock 19 and CZ75 PCR, I pick the Glock because it is simpler than the CZ.
Both are good pistols and either one can be learned; Glock is just simpler to learn and use (consistent trigger and minimal controls) for me.
===
I have carried similar sized pistols to the Glock 19 (Sig P6 SA/DA and a Walther P99 SA/DA). Now, I CC a smaller pistol (Kahr K9 DAO). It is easier and more comfortable to CC than the others.
===
I am assuming that you are fairly new to shooting. If so, I recommend to learn the fundamentals with iron sights first. You can always add the laser later.
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Old March 26, 2014, 08:37 AM   #36
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SKANS gave good advice. I would add that you should consider how you will carry it as well as whether you want single stack for a nice slim easily concealable carry or high capacity double stack.
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Old March 26, 2014, 08:46 AM   #37
Big4Freedom
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+1 for the Sig p938.

It's awesome to conceal, lightweight, has thumb safety, outstanding night sights, and very reliable.

I love the glock 27/26 but they're wider and heavier than I prefer for carry routinely.

For me, I'd rather spend extra cash for good night sights than a laser if choosing for ccw. Some folks might disagree however. P938 comes with NS included in price.
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Old March 26, 2014, 10:17 AM   #38
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I highly recommend the Ruger SR9c, reasonably priced, has the manual thumb safety you wanted and it has a great trigger, 10 rd. mag or 17 rd. if you use the extension and if you want to add a laser the Crimson Trace 449 Laserguard can be had for about $200.00. That’s what I carry in a Crossbreed Supertuck. IWB holster, very concealable, very comfortable and mine has been flawless.
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Old March 26, 2014, 10:30 AM   #39
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Since you specifically mentioned wanting to add a laser and that this would be a concealed carry gun, I would recommend the Smith & Wesson M&P. Crimson Trace offers a grip laser that replaces the backstrap for a nicely integrated laser sight. There are other options for lasers, but I have not liked any of them for CC.

Now if you are not dead set on adding a laser, my recommendation is to see if there is a gun shop in your area that offers rentals. Test firing your short list will give you a MUCH better idea of what grip styles, weights, and sizes work well for your hands. My short list for a CC handgun would be the Springfield XD/XDm, Walther PPQ (classic), Glock 19, and Smith & Wesson M&P for moderate sized weapons, Walther PPS, M&P Shield, and Glock 26 for sub-compact. YMMV.
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Old March 26, 2014, 03:35 PM   #40
Unlicensed Dremel
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Depends ENTIRELY upon what your method of carry will be, which is?
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Old March 28, 2014, 06:19 AM   #41
Pilot
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Quote:
so the .22 kit does work for the PCR?
YES. The Kadet Kit works great on both the PCR and P-01.

Quote:
can you put a laser on the PCR?
Dunno

Quote:
and what kind of safety does it have?
Double action first trigger pull like a revolver. The one between your ears.

Quote:
also- how does the .22 PCR's accuracy compare to the accuracy of a mark .22?
If you mean the Kadet Kit .22 conversion, the accuracy is comparable to my Ruger MK II Target in stock configuration. A tuned Ruger will be easier to shoot more accurately.
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Old March 28, 2014, 06:21 AM   #42
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Forget the laser, it's a gimic and a crutch, and will not help you with the mechanics of shooting with are extremely important.

Learn how to shoot. Develop those skills by firing hundreds or thousands of rounds, and you'll not need a laser.

Lasers are also going to limit your holster choices, and add significant expense to your overall costs of the gun.

As for the gun type, try as many types as you can. But stick with one of the premier guns. Glock, CZ, and Sig Sauer, S&W M&P, Springfield XD, S&W Generation 3 compact .... those would be the ones I personally would look at. There is enough variety in those lines to cover most of the modern 'types' of handguns.
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Old March 28, 2014, 10:40 AM   #43
loic
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I cc a cz sp-01 phantom in 9mm. Im 5"7 and not much of a problem to conceal it, BUT with the 18rds mag it is a bit heavy (I have a very good carry belt )
I love my cz, to find a holster that's made for it require a little more research (got mine from hignoon holster, waiting time =forever but great quality) I have shot close to 10 k rounds through it, no problems with the gun. I change the sight to meprolight tru dot as I didnt care for the one from cz. My next semi will probably be another cz but in a smaller frame.
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Old April 7, 2014, 07:19 AM   #44
theskydiver
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does adding the kadet kit make any weight difference?


kind of siding with the PCR... basically due to conceal ability.

where can i find concealable holsters? i would want to be able to pretty much conceal it when wearing a T shirt.


also- how much better are the steel framed compact for recoil and follow up shots?
that will also influence my decision.

going to call around and see if i can hold some....

id really like to get the kadet kit as i am also looking for a .22 pistol.

my want for a laser is no more.

Last edited by theskydiver; April 7, 2014 at 11:02 AM.
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Old April 7, 2014, 08:27 AM   #45
damionkeller
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I agree with some of the other posters that a laser probably isn't necessary for a concealed carry weapon. Just more bulk to deal with.

Regarding a brand of 9, I am very happy with my Ruger P94, but it's too large to conceal. May want to look into some of their other models though. Solid construction and I've literally never had a jam.
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Old April 7, 2014, 01:07 PM   #46
marine6680
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Holsters...

Amazon
Brownells
Midway USA
Cheaper than dirt

There is a dedicated CZ forum with threads dedicated to holsters.

The all steel CZ will decrease felt recoil, but the CZ design reduces muzzle flip/jump in recoil. The alloy frame will be fine. CZs tend to feel more straight back into the hand during recoil compared to my other pistols.

I still recommend the decocker version. I feel it is better for a new owner and shooter. If you get the safety version, I still think carrying decocked to the half cock notch is the best way. I am not a fan of safeties on a carry pistol unless it is SA only.

If you do get the CZ compact or variant with a safety, and will carry it decocked, practice decocking the hammer on an empty chamber until you have it down.

Also, always have clean hands and the pistol wiped down when doing this. You want to make sure there is minimal chance of slipping.



Another good option is the new version (Second generation) of the CZ P-07. They did some design changes. Smoothed the texturing on the grip a little, better sights, changed the hammer shape, added swappable back straps for helping fit to different hands, and they dehorned (smoothed) the pistol to aid in carry comfort.

A big improvement over the first generation.

Not only that, it comes with parts to swap between a safety or decocker... You can try each and see which you prefer.


You will really like CZ, most do. Have you held one? I have only heard of a couple people who didn't like the way they feel.
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Old April 7, 2014, 08:14 PM   #47
Auto5
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What? No love for the Bersa BP9CC? Slim, easy to shoot and carry, 8+1 capacity and priced lower than most of the other suggestions here. Even has a rail if you're dead set on a laser.
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Old April 7, 2014, 08:29 PM   #48
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Skydiver, I applaud your patience in researching. Impulsive me has bought 2 pistols since you posted June 3rd of last year. Just make an educated choice and learn to shoot it like you were born with it in your hand.
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Old April 18, 2014, 11:31 AM   #49
theskydiver
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now that i have decided to go with the all steel thumb safety cz 75 compact, where the hell do i find one? i know it has to be possible to get one shipped to an FFL for me, but how?
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Old April 18, 2014, 11:36 AM   #50
loic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theskydiver View Post
now that i have decided to go with the all steel thumb safety cz 75 compact, where the hell do i find one? i know it has to be possible to get one shipped to an FFL for me, but how?
Check with your local store, they should be able to order one for you.
I just placed an order for a p-07 duty today for $449 . It should arrive by next Wednesday. Those 2 were getting lonely.....(be carefully with the CZ bug, once it bites you, you cant stop...LOL)
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