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Old February 24, 2014, 05:29 AM   #1
kcub
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Shootout: Walther PPQ Navy M1 vs. HK P30 light LEM

Brought these 2 guns to the range yesterday to compare.

Instinctively point shooting the P30 hit closer to the focused target though both hit dead on to the right (I am a lefty).

Both have excellent ambidextrous controls, both have 3 dot sights, both shoot ragged hole groups dead on to point of aim right out of the box. Neither has failed in any way.


The PPQ has the better trigger. The P30 has the better grip. The PPQ has more muzzle flip, but just slightly.

It will be interesting to see if the HK striker gun ups the ante.
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Old February 24, 2014, 08:25 AM   #2
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I love the P30(L, specifically) but I've really been wanting a PPQ M1. I have no interest in the M2... but I'm so close to just ordering one now that the M1's are back in stock.
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Old February 24, 2014, 08:30 AM   #3
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Uncle Malice........do it......
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Old February 24, 2014, 04:27 PM   #4
IMightBeWrong
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I had and sold a PPQ. The P30 is a nicer pistol overall. Better trigger on the PPQ but that's about it. I didn't care for the finish on the Walther slide and the polymer used seemed to get little scratches on it if I so much as looked at it funny. It wasn't a bad gun, but I think if you have a P30 then the PPQ will be an unnecessary redundancy. You could go get a CZ P01 for that money!
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Old February 24, 2014, 04:57 PM   #5
sigarms228
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Congrats kcub!!

I was at the range with my PPQ and HK P30LS yesterday. Love them both and keeping them both. PPQ is phenomenal pistol for the money and easily my top choice in the under $700 range.

For metal frame pistols it is SIG all the way for me.

From yesterday at 25 feet - 15 rounds. I am getting better with my P30LS and wow is it a soft shooter as far as recoil.




Last edited by sigarms228; February 24, 2014 at 05:04 PM.
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Old February 26, 2014, 05:43 AM   #6
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I cleaned these guns yesterday and the Walther is as easy as it gets for takedown. The HK was not a pain in the ass to takedown but definitely not as easy.

Also I had never experimented with the PPQ's alternate backstraps and took the opportunity to do so. Good thing as both of the others felt noticeably better in my hand. I would still say the HK holds the edge for grip comfort and it has not only interchangeable backstraps but grip panels as well.

And of course the PPQ navy has the edge for corrosion resistance in marine or other harsh environments.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...61965928,d.b2I
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Old February 26, 2014, 08:13 AM   #7
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Unless you want to dunk your pistols in water and leave them for a month I see nothing that convinces me that HK's hostile environment finish wouldn't hold up. As for takedown on the P30 you pull the slide back slightly and push a pin. Not sure how that is much harder than dry firing the pistol and pulling down on some tabs.
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Old February 26, 2014, 11:00 AM   #8
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I agree that the PPQ comes apart a little easier/quicker than the P-30. The PPQ can have the magazine installed where the P-30 can't. The P-30 has to have the slide and frame lined up just right to push the pin. It would have been nice if the pin had a ball dent and the line up was when the slide was locked back.

Not a deal breaker, but not the easiest to break down either. For this type of gun, as long it does not need a tool to remove the slide I'm fine with it.
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Old February 26, 2014, 11:38 AM   #9
TunnelRat
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Quote:
The PPQ can have the magazine installed where the P-30 can't.
It's funny you bring this up as now we have SIG Sauer making this requirement a part of their advertising for their new striker fired pistol and suggesting it functions as a safety feature. I don't really understand why you would want to take the pistol down with the magazine still in. Isn't it standard procedure to remove the magazine and check that the chamber is clear?

Quote:
The P-30 has to have the slide and frame lined up just right to push the pin.
I know what you're saying, but to me it's not that hard once you do it a few times. As a tip, I put the tip of my thumb between the slide and the barrel and it causes that gap in the slide to line up perfectly with the pin.
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Old February 26, 2014, 12:35 PM   #10
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I don't see why it would be unsafe to leave a magazine in the gun. Pulling the slide back to check the chamber will also tell you if the magazine is empty. I do leave my PPQ's magazine in at times when I want to pull it apart real quick. Just because Sig does it a particular way does not mean that's the standard for everyone else to follow.

Like most anything else that gets easier to more you do it can apply to lining up the slide and frame of the P-30. I'd still rather not have to do it and it's not quite as quick and easy to take down than many other designs.
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Old February 26, 2014, 12:37 PM   #11
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I don't see why it would be unsafe to leave a magazine in the gun.
I just don't see why you would. Again, it's pretty much standard procedure. On most striker fired pistols you have to pull the trigger to disassamble. If all you do is pull back the slide to check that the chamber is clear and not remove the magazine, were the magazine loaded and you let the slide go home a round would chamber and when you pulled the trigger in the disassembly process the gun would fire. It's just not a good habit.

Quote:
Just because Sig does it a particular way does not mean that's the standard for everyone else to follow.
Agreed, I wasn't bringing up SIG to say that they were right, I was bringing up SIG to show that there are groups that value having to take out the mag.

Quote:
I'd still rather not have to do it and it's not quite as quick and easy to take down than many other designs.
I agree to disagree.
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Old February 26, 2014, 12:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
I just don't see why you would. Again, it's pretty much standard procedure. On most striker fired pistols you have to pull the trigger to disassamble. If all you do is pull back the slide to check that the chamber is clear and not remove the magazine, were the magazine loaded and you let the slide go home a round would chamber and when you pulled the trigger in the disassembly process the gun would fire. It's just not a good habit.
Not if you pull the slide back part way so that the slide does not lock back and you can see the clear chamber and empty magazine.

Quote:
Agreed, I wasn't bringing up SIG to say that they were right, I was bringing up SIG to show that there are groups that value having to take out the mag.
Some do and some don't. I don't in every case.

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I agree to disagree.
Me too.
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Old February 26, 2014, 12:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Not if you pull the slide back part way so that the slide does not lock back and you can see the clear chamber and empty magazine.
This is the US of A and you're free to do what you want, but I know of no instructor or range that would recommend that. Even Walther says to remove the magazine:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore...usa_manual.pdf

But do what you will.
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Old February 26, 2014, 12:54 PM   #14
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I will.
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Old February 26, 2014, 12:59 PM   #15
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I personally feel that it's foolish and dangerous to make a habit of leaving the magazine in the gun during take down. Whether it's empty or not... Proper take-down procedure(or really, proper 'make safe' procedure) of any firearm is to first remove the magazine and THEN check the chamber.

I really want a PPQ, but I would certainly not look at the the ability to disassemble with a magazine inserted as a feature.... more a flaw if anything... but not something I'm concerned about either way.

I will concede that perhaps the pull tabs are minutely easier for disassembly than the P30 pin... but it's such a small measure of 'easier' that it's mostly irrelevant. The P30 is no more difficult than the rotation lever of the M&P or Sig models. And I would argue that the difficulty is perhaps on par with the Glock because the tabs on the Glock can be more difficult to get a good purchase on unless you add one of the aftermarket extended slide lock levers. The PPQ has the same design but with larger, easier to actuate levers. It's a good design.
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Old February 26, 2014, 01:12 PM   #16
Worc
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Who said they were a huge or even a big difference?
I'd rather the HK P-30 have a rotary lever like the SIG. At least with the Sig, you can lock the slide back instead of having to apply the correct amount of pressure against the recoil spring to line up the slide and frame.

The PPQ, P-30 and 226 all come apart easy. Some are just slightly easier and quicker than the others.
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Old February 27, 2014, 01:25 AM   #17
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On the topic of breaking down a P30 vs breaking down the PPQ...

If you're like me and you hate to take down firearms like 1911s because they have more steps, the cap that is held captive by the bushing likes to go flying if you aren't careful, etc, then that's understandable. And I'd sure as heck rather take down a Glock than my Ruger Mk II right now, too.

But to call out how you take down the P30 compared to the PPQ as being a negative just seems like splitting hairs to me. The difference in difficulty level between taking down the P30 and the PPQ is so small that, personally, I'd say it's a moot point.
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Old February 27, 2014, 09:30 AM   #18
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Quote:
I personally feel that it's foolish and dangerous to make a habit of leaving the magazine in the gun during take down.
This. ^^^

The P99/PPQ is probably the easiest pistol design to field strip that I've ever encountered, but you should still drop the mag.

I have a Ruger Mark III that required you to remove and re-insert the mag in order to field strip (due to it's crudely-designed magazine safety). In my mind, that was an accident waiting to happen. It only takes a momentary lack of concentration - which can happen to anyone - to lead to disastrous consequences. For that reason and others, I quickly modified the Mark III to remove the mag safety.
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