The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 12, 2014, 01:40 PM   #1
bspillman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2011
Posts: 259
Hd shotgun training

How do you guys train for home defense situations? What drills do run and how do you do them? Thanks in advance.
bspillman is offline  
Old February 12, 2014, 03:41 PM   #2
ClydeFrog
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2010
Posts: 5,798
Room broom skill training....

I don't own any defense shotguns or "room brooms" at the moment but if I did, there are a # of books, videos, classes, etc available to both the armed citizen or working professional.
Classes are sometimes open to the general public from top programs or cadre.
For more details see; www.Magpul.com www.gunvideo.com www.deltapress.com www.nra.org www.paladin-press.com www.midwayusa.com www.brownells.com .

Louis Awbuck(check spelling) is widely known for 12ga defense drills & training.
Author, sworn LE officer & legal use of force expert: Massad Ayoob wrote a few gun press items & manuals about shotgun methods.
DVDs are also available if classroom instruction isn't in your budget.
ClydeFrog is offline  
Old February 13, 2014, 05:18 PM   #3
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,550
Depending on where you live, there are good shotgun classes. Tom Givens has one and a CD. Steve Moses taught a good one and KRtraining has a class and hosts Givens. This is the TX and TN areas.

We also have an IDPA shotgun stage after the main matches for some trigger time.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old February 14, 2014, 10:19 AM   #4
btmj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 1, 2011
Location: Near St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 747
One thing that will really help... shoot some skeet (or trap, but skeet is better training IMO).

I recently shot my home defense 12 gage after an afternoon of shooting 22 rifle at bullseye targets. Without thinking too much, I shouldered the mossberg in a fully bladed offhand rifle position, pulled in in lightly into my shoulder pocket, squeezed the trigger.... and then realized that the recoil seemed a lot more severe than the last time I shot it...

Of course I was using the exact wrong position for shooting a shotgun. Once I squared up, leaned forward, and pulled the gun in TIGHT to my shoulder, I went through the rest of the box of shells without problem.

The point is, we revert to our training, and I had been training all afternoon with a 22 rifle.

Shooting skeet will get you used to swinging the gun at a moving target, absorbing the recoil, and following up with a second shot.

You don't have to be a great skeet shooter... In a self defense situation, a human enemy is much larger, and moving much slower than a clay bird.

Jim
btmj is offline  
Old February 15, 2014, 12:53 PM   #5
Erno86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2012
Location: Marriottsville, Maryland
Posts: 501
You can check out Matt Burkett's - Shotgun Mastery dvd.
__________________
That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."

--- George Orwell
Erno86 is offline  
Old February 15, 2014, 07:44 PM   #6
papershotshells
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2013
Posts: 123
FWIW, I don't view the shotgun as an ideal home defense gun, I think the handgun is. Using the handgun frees your other (off) hand to do things like hold a flashlight, turn on a light switch, open a door, fend off an unseen attacker, etc. Plus I personally feel that a shotgun is much easier for a bad guy to take away from an untrained user. In some training videos that I have watched, Massad Ayoob refers to the shotgun as artillery, to only be used after you have retreated to your safe room and "counted noses" (accounted for all familty members), due to the possibility of injuring unintended targets such as family members. He also makes the point that the shotgun excels at shooting through things in an appropriate situation, such as furniture etc, if the bad guy is using cover, so the shotgun does have a place in the home defense plan, even if it's not ideal as a first response.

Having said all that, and to try and answer the original question, I train quite a bit with my shotgun (used in addition to a handgun in my home defense strategy). I practice manuevering the shotgun (short barrel and shortened buttstock) in confined spaces, topping off the magazine from a ready firing position and single loading the shotgun (pump in my case) from empty to get back into the fight. All of these techniques are available in videos online and should be practiced until they are second nature to you if a shotgun is part of your home defense plan.

Some other random thoughts on using a shotgun for home defense are to mount a flashlight on the gun (it's hard to use one in your weak hand when holding a shotgun) and to keep extra ammo ON THE GUN. Keep the extra ammo in a side saddle or a butt cuff, but keep it on the gun as you WILL forget to grab it in the event of an emergency. I also don't recommend a sling on a home defense shotgun. Too many things it can snag on in a typical home.

Just my opinion, based on 20+ years of experience using a shotgun for home defense and security work.

Papershotshells
papershotshells is offline  
Old February 15, 2014, 08:36 PM   #7
boondocker385
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 6, 2013
Posts: 343
no slings.... don't ask me how I know!
__________________
No second place finishes in a gun fight.
boondocker385 is offline  
Old February 15, 2014, 09:15 PM   #8
Pezo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2005
Location: Macomb, Mich
Posts: 629
All I have to say is I have a blast with my mossberg 590-a1 20". I shoot the thing second nature. Mostly rifled slugs but when able an assortment of various buckshot. Like #4, 00 and 12 pellet magnum buck. The guns weight handles the recoil and the weapon feels great in my hands. If I had it to rely on it in a defense scenario I'd think I'd be alright.
Pezo is offline  
Old February 16, 2014, 10:49 AM   #9
ClydeFrog
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2010
Posts: 5,798
Youtube clip....

A point I bring up often when forum members discuss home defense rifles/shotguns is a good video on www.youtube.com of how a quick thinking crook can disarm a home owner/tenant holding a rifle-shotgun.
You don't need to be a Ninja or SEAL to do it either.

As noted, with a long gun, you are operating in close quarters(CQB). Retention & good tactics are required. Having a free hand(or two free hands with a holstered firearm) may be necessary.

The point about shotgun slings is good. Denny Chalker, a retired US Navy SEAL who served on the elite SEAL-06 & Red Cell counter-terrorist unit invented a sling attachment that allows a weapon to be quickly detached. The rig became very popular with SWAT units & spec ops who worked in CQB situations. I'm not sure what site or company markets it but it's not a bad idea.

Clyde
ClydeFrog is offline  
Old February 18, 2014, 04:56 PM   #10
Derbel McDillet
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 6, 2013
Posts: 224
Another good training video is "Shotgun CQB featuring C.J. Caracci".

Chris Caracci is a former Navy SEAL. This is an excellent video that focuses on home defense shotgun fighting tactics and techniques. You can train with these methods in your own home using an unloaded shotgun or red gun.

"Shotgun CQB featuring C.J. Caracci" is included in the DVD "CQB Clearing Tactics for First Responders", which can be ordered from Amazon.com or rented from Netflix.

I don't use a sling on my HD shotgun (Remington 870P) because it's simply something else I have to manage to keep it from inadvertently snagging on objects while I'm moving.

Good luck!
Derbel McDillet is offline  
Old February 18, 2014, 04:59 PM   #11
leadcounsel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2005
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 1,735
View videos on Tactical or Fighting Shotgun.

Practice those drills.

You can also attend those courses.

I like the 12 gauge for home defense. I also have other tools such as handguns and the AK47. Those tools cover all practical and foreseeable HD situations.
__________________
2A: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." US Army Combat Veteran and Paratrooper: OIF (2008, 2009, 2010) and OND (2011). Bronze Star Medal and Meritorious Service Medal recipient. NRA Lifetime Member. I'm a lawyer, but not YOUR lawyer and I have not offered you legal advice.
leadcounsel is offline  
Old February 18, 2014, 05:02 PM   #12
ClydeFrog
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2010
Posts: 5,798
Funny but true!....

Slings can be a big pain. Factor in low light, stress & chaos.

No lie, I once got a belt loop on my pants stuck on a door handle.
I could just see some Don Knotts type screw-up with a long-gun & sling.
ClydeFrog is offline  
Old February 19, 2014, 10:53 PM   #13
FireForged
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 1999
Location: Rebel South USA
Posts: 1,186
I am not going to use a sling unless I plan on carrying a firearm for several miles or stand static for hours and hours. A sling is nothing but a lasso if someone happens to get a hold of your rifle.
__________________
Life is a web woven by necessity and chance...
FireForged is offline  
Old February 20, 2014, 12:21 PM   #14
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 1,690
I prefer a handgun for most HD uses. That said, a good shotgun can be absolutely devastating and can dominate the handgun range fight. I would use it as a safe room weapon, where you can barricade with your family until the Calvary arrives, in that way you have devastating power at your hands. If it was a situation where you needed to maneuver to gather children a handgun is more practical. The most important thing would be some basic training on the shotgun. Look to the NRA or the state agency that regulates CCW training for instructors in your area.
__________________
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09616 seconds with 9 queries