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Old February 13, 2014, 10:53 AM   #1
Art Eatman
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Hog Hunting In Texas

A film of shooting hogs from a chopper:

http://vimeo.com/21181307
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Old February 13, 2014, 11:21 AM   #2
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Wish we could do that here but our pigs wouldn't even be seen unless you happened to catch them crossing a road. The forester that manages the club lands in our area goes up to survey a good bit, says he rarely sees pigs or deer from the chopper unless they are caught in a food plot or clear cut. We were talking to him about killing them and brought it up, he laughed and said he'd seen the bears on the property more than the pigs, there's a lot more pigs than bears in there, a lot more by a factor of 100 or more.

We have a meeting with the game warden and forester coming up to address the issue.
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Old February 13, 2014, 08:57 PM   #3
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Love that. What sighting system is he using?
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Old February 13, 2014, 09:57 PM   #4
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That looks like some fun haha. That's a lot of bacon for 30 seconds work!
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Old February 20, 2014, 11:31 AM   #5
Unlicensed Dremel
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Sickening. Extremely unethical. ALL mammals deserve the same ethics as you would on deer, regardless of nuisance level.
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Old February 20, 2014, 01:34 PM   #6
globemaster3
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Dremel, you obviously have not researched the issue or are too bleeding heart to be swayed. Texas agriculture suffers $400 million in loses annually due to an estimated 2 million hogs within the state borders. I've seen first hand what a sounder of 20-30 pigs can do in 1 night: acres of crops looking like it was disked under. Trapping can only do so much, and hunters using traditional methods don't even begin to touch the population. A female is fertile at 8 months and drop 6-8 per pregnancy, producing litters a couple times a year. Now put that in perspective with an estimated 2 million in Texas. That is why in 2011, Texas made shooting from helicopters for hogs legal.

And Texas is only 1 state of 39 at last I read that are infested with feral pigs. My home state of FL has a ton of them and I learned quick in my youth how to hunt them. Since, I've chased them in OK and TX, and am right now looking in NM.

This isn't hunting, this is depredation. They don't deserve respect or quarter as you would traditional game hunting. Unethical? Heck, it'd be unethical NOT to take every possible action to get the population under control.
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Old February 20, 2014, 05:18 PM   #7
markj
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Sickening. Extremely unethical. ALL mammals deserve the same ethics as you would on deer, regardless of nuisance level.
Aw come on now, you already booked a flight didnt you? lol
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Old February 20, 2014, 05:34 PM   #8
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Hogs in Texas are like mosquitoes in Panama City Panama - Bad - real bad problem.
A lot of farmers and ranchers here will let you hunt hogs until you can pull a trigger any more.
I had one rancher tell me "kill all ya want and leave them for the buzzards"
The damage they do is unbelievable.
Planted fields and get completely wiped out in one night by a dozen or so hogs.
The only issue a have is when you shoot an animal be sure you killed it.
Don't let it suffer.
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Old February 20, 2014, 08:09 PM   #9
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Dremel, they are to farmers, gardners and flower-garden homeowners--and golf course maintenance men--what cockroaches, flies and mice are to you in your kitchen.
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Old February 20, 2014, 11:24 PM   #10
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rumor

I've already started the rumor that a hog flight would be a great retirement gift.

Nobody seems to be listening.
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Old February 21, 2014, 08:10 AM   #11
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Sickening. Extremely unethical. ALL mammals deserve the same ethics as you would on deer, regardless of nuisance level.
I'd shoot a pig in the ass with a BB gun if I thought it would get gangrene and die. Deer don't propagate and spread like a disease the way pigs do. Pigs are a threat to deer herds and native species, they are vermin.
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Old February 23, 2014, 03:10 PM   #12
Unlicensed Dremel
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In my o-PIN-ion....

Art, and Salty, you guys are just dead wrong. Nuisance level (status as vermin) is just simply NOT the criterion by which we judge the level of ethics deserved. If it was, we could go around shooting and wounding people, too. That factor is utterly irrelevant (as mentioned). What's relevant is the intelligence & sophistication of the species, and their ability to feel pain. Pigs are very intelligent creatures, very very much like humans. What on earth does nuisance level have to do with it? Certainly it would be convenient to fudge ethics improperly to justify this absurd nonsense, as you guys clearly have done. But that shows you lack principle and integrity (and ethics), to engage in such justification. That's a barbarian mentality. That's what you have, Art - a barbarian mentality? They're not cockroaches and flies, Art- that's comparing apples & carbeurators - couldn't possibly be more different, in terms of sophistication & intelligence level, and ability to perceive pain. The ends justify the means, no matter what? Deer are equal nuisances in a few places (far greater in some places with ZERO pigs) - so if that were that case (as it is), in YOUR book, that justifies slinging lead haphazardly and wounding at will in those places, at deer? It would have to, if you are to be consistent. I would suggest that you guys seriously consider and reflect on the animals' intelligence and deserved ethics..... Sorry, but nuisance level (status as vermin) ain't got nuttin to do with nuttin. The animal's NATURE does. Where have ethics in hunting GONE over the years? This is what gives anti-hunters (justified) ammunition against us. Just because Ted does it, doesn't mean it's proper.... In fact, given his track record, it's a pretty safe bet, that if Ted does it, it's unethical & improper.

...In my o-PIN-ion.

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Old February 23, 2014, 06:19 PM   #13
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A big sounder of wild hogs is like a huge vacuum cleaner traveling over land. Hogs destroy the nests of ground nesting birds. They destroy young rabbits and quail, root up valuable crops and cause erosion. i've spent a few thousand hours hunting and observing wild hogs. i've watched wild hogs chase deer away from the acorns and pecans, off wheatfields and away from water holes and ponds. Big boar hogs sometimes get a taste for young fawns.

You can call my trapping and shooting of wild hogs "unethical" all you want. That does not make it so. i pick my shots carefully and make clean quick kills. Yeah, i kill hogs in traps too. We do not have an amnesty program here for wild hogs.

Yep, hogs are pretty smart animals. This boar was surely a Mensa candidate. Took me a long time to catch him. Found his weak spot, half rotten apples.




This one and his/her siblings escaped from a trap.



Yep, pigs can fly too:


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Old February 23, 2014, 08:11 PM   #14
Art Eatman
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Dremel, you're going on emotion in your arguing for your opinion. That's fine; no problem. Trouble is, you give no rational alternative for those in the physical world who have to deal with a very real problem.

Consider for a moment: Animals such as deer are primarily considered as "sporting" prey. "Sport" immediately implies "fair play"--or fair chase and ethical, quick kill and such. In fifteen years of moderating, I've yet to find any member here or at THR who advocates unethical hunting.

Do you worry about fair play and sporting ethics when in need of the use of deadly force in self-defense?

For many, killing feral hogs is self-defense against a loss of serious amounts of money. Don't be surprised that their views on ethics are totally different from yours.

So for all that we here definitely prefer to make a clean kill on whatever we shoot, I for one am not going to have concern as to the methods of those who are dealing with a serious economic problem.
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Old February 23, 2014, 09:11 PM   #15
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You can call my trapping and shooting of wild hogs "unethical" all you want. That does not make it so. i pick my shots carefully and make clean quick kills.
Just for clarity sake, I believe he is not saying the act of killing the hogs is unethical but believes that from the helicopter it is very difficult to make a clean shot to kill the animal quickly. This is what I got from Dremels post. I may be mistaken but he can confirm or deny that.

As for my personal opinion I wouldn't shoot something I wouldn't eat. But I don't own a farm that can be destroyed. I can't wait to go hunt bacon though haha. Of course once I move to Texas my opinion might change seeing as hogs are a massive problem.
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Old February 23, 2014, 10:21 PM   #16
iraiam
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Sickening. Extremely unethical. ALL mammals deserve the same ethics as you would on deer, regardless of nuisance level.
I cannot agree, some areas have a massive problem with these pigs, costing a whole bunch of money due to the loss of agricultural use of the land.

I have helped kill these animals on occasion at my own expense because I was asked. None of the meat went to waste. but I can assure you they were shown no mercy, kill as many as you can as cleanly as you can.

I would also add, This is NOT "hunting" and NOT about "hunting". In the case of my friends, it is about saving agricultural land from destruction by an invasive species.
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Old February 24, 2014, 01:06 AM   #17
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What's relevant is the intelligence & sophistication of the species, and their ability to feel pain. Pigs are very intelligent creatures, very very much like humans. What on earth does nuisance level have to do with it? Certainly it would be convenient to fudge ethics improperly to justify this absurd nonsense, as you guys clearly have done. But that shows you lack principle and integrity (and ethics), to engage in such justification. That's a barbarian mentality.
Seems very easy to criticize others when it's not your property being destroyed.
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Old February 24, 2014, 09:18 AM   #18
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There are no ethics involved where feral hogs are concerned, it is a shoot on sight policy. You put lead into them, they died there or run off and die. The main thing is that they die and no longer propagate the species. I wouldn't expect someone to understand the thought process that hadn't witnessed the destructive nature of the vermin firsthand.

Yep, they are smart, doesn't mean the deserve any quarter where toting a bullet is concerned. Pigs are disgusting animals that will wreck a property in short order.
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Old February 24, 2014, 11:20 AM   #19
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In the past year my friends and i have trapped and shot well over 200 wild hogs. With a couple exceptions, every one of those hogs were cleanly killed and the meat went to someone.

All my shots are picked very carefully. i do not shoot hogs or anything else to run off and die a lingering death. They are all God's creatures and they deserve to be cleanly killed.
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Old February 24, 2014, 08:05 PM   #20
Art Eatman
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You look at where the hogs were shot, it would be easy enough for some hands with a pickup to collect hogs; coup de grace as necessary. The film just showed the shooting. No way to know about afterwards, but I wouldn't want my pasture full of dead-critter stink.
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Old February 25, 2014, 03:21 PM   #21
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I shoot hogs as I see them. I would rather kill them than leave them wounded, but if wounded is the best I can do, so be it. I'll put what I can in the freezer and what I don't eat I will use for coyote bait. My theory is that the pigs I kill will allow me to kill more coyotes. That will help fawn survival in the local deer herd.

And nothing but the hogs are rooting up my hay field. They can really do some damage overnight. I don't want to hear anybody whining to me about the poor little hogs and how they need to be understood because they are cute and intelligent.

At 4 pm today I'll be back in the blind, looking for hogs.
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Old February 25, 2014, 03:34 PM   #22
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Sickening. Extremely unethical. ALL mammals deserve the same ethics as you would on deer, regardless of nuisance level.
All mammals? What about rats? We kill them with poison..traps..and shovels(at the barn)....

Hog hunting is not sporting hunting at all..it is an attempt at erradication....
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Old February 25, 2014, 03:52 PM   #23
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On the matter of sport vs vermin, consider bowfishing. Carp are considered vermin and so are gar. Trash fish anyway. They are open season. Whereas bass are protected. Ethical shots are not considered much on trash fish. But you can't even hunt gamefish with a bow.If you think about it, a lot of it has to do with money. Bass bring in a lot more money that carp and gar. Same thing with pigs and deer. Even squirrels and rabbits have a season in places. But no hog season? Pigs are one of the few animals that can reproduce in the size and grow as fast and are considered a renewable resource in other countries lol.
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Old February 25, 2014, 04:43 PM   #24
saltydog452
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If I lived in the Everglades, I wouldn't feel any more compassion for shotgunning a Python as I would for swating a mosquito.

Feral pigs would receive the same respect and compassion.

salty
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Old February 25, 2014, 05:02 PM   #25
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"Sickening. Extremely unethical. ALL mammals deserve the same ethics as you would on deer, regardless of nuisance level."

Unless of course, you lost an entire year worth of income. How would you confront a thief that broke in to your house demanding to steal a years worth of YOUR income? I do not see much difference there.
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