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Old February 7, 2014, 08:50 AM   #26
Bart B.
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If you get serious enough to start shooting 1000 yards, you're going to want purpose-built equipment. Trust me. Such as a rifle with a heavy barrel, heavy stock with a beaver-tail forend, high magnification scope, and a super-light trigger. All those things aren't so great on a hunting rifle. Try walking through the woods and climbing up in your stand with a 15lb+ rifle with a 28" barrel. Or being competitive at a 1000 yard target competition with a hunting rifle with a sporter barrel, 3-5 pound trigger, 3-9x40 scope and light stock.
I've always enjoyed watching folks shooting 9-pound semiautos with slender stocks, 22" slender barrels, post front sights and a 5-pound trigger outscoring others shooting 13-pound single-shot bolt guns with long, heavy, stiff barrels, fat stocks, 20X scopes and 5-ounce triggers in long range matches.

Especially when they're the match winners.

A 9-pound hunting rifle with a sporter barrel, a 3 to 5 pound trigger and 3-9 power scope can be built to shoot just as accurate as a 13-pound shoulder-fired long range match rifle.
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Last edited by Bart B.; February 7, 2014 at 09:22 AM.
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Old February 7, 2014, 09:34 AM   #27
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Plus 1 on that
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Old February 7, 2014, 09:46 AM   #28
Tipsy Mcstagger
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As has been stated, the 308 is a great way to get into the game, and can take you to 1000. I'd get a savage with accutrigger heavy barrel or Remington 700 heavy barrel and rail, possibly stock, and a scope that has turret adjustments. I have done all of that, and am really enjoying it, and have also learned enough to look into a cartridge that has really high BC bullets like 7mm/08 or the 260/6.5. Type in these bullets vs good 308 bullets into a ballistics calculator and look at down range drop, energy and fps. While 308 has the power edge close in, the BC of the bullet translates to more energy and speed downrange, less drop. I would not change buying the 308, now I am just looking into getting something 'better' in addition to the 308. If you want to only buy one gun, look into the other calibers in the 6mm and 6.5 and 7mm range that the other guys have suggested. Do you reload? That could also be a determining factor, there are calibers/cartridges I would have never considered before due to price.
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Old February 7, 2014, 10:33 AM   #29
4winds
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Pick a hunting rifle platform as that is what your intentions are (6-7.5 lbs bare rifle). Since your left eye dominant, get a left handed model. Make sure the gun fits your shape. The stock comb should come just under your cheek bone. Get rings in a height that will place the scope on your eye without craning your neck or other body distortions. No tactical scopes or other heavy telescopes on top...a good 36-40mm objective...Leupy vx2 or vx3, or cost savings look at a redfield. Get it in a 308 if your chasing hogs and deer and relatively new at rifle hunting. I'm guessing you don't reload, so it will be cheaper to practice with surplus ammo or cheaper available ammo at the stores. Get behind that rifle and learn some shooting techniques, you can get premium stuff but I wouldn't practice with it. Please practice like your hunting...sitting, standing, sticks, sling, whatever. With the money you save you can buy some reloading stuff which will afford you the premium stuff. Just some suggestions...Good luck!
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Old February 7, 2014, 10:35 AM   #30
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Reading the OP and ignoring all the responses, I'd be inclined to have you consider something based on the .223Rem or the .308Win. I will assume that an AR/MSR platform is out, so I will assume you are looking at bolt guns.

Frankly, for FL deer, the .223 Rem is not a bad choice. With the proper bullets and loading, you can most assuredly shoot to 1000 yards with it. There are factory configured rifles with stable stocks and faster twists to stabilize the heavies. There is always the .22-250, which pumps up the volume, but with an associated reduction in barrel life.

The .308 does have more recoil, but it is manageable. My 85 pound 12 year old does fine with it. The .243, .260 or 7mm-08 would be good choices based on your stated uses if the .308 is not appealing. The caveat is finding a factory offering with a sufficiently fast twist to stabilize the 105s in .243, 140s in .260 and 160s in 7mm-08. They are out there, but not prevalent. When you look at .308, almost everyone makes a fast twist .308 in a decent stock.

IMHO, THE budget build do-all hunting/precision medium range target rifle is the Remington 700 AAC-SD (.308). By medium range, I mean from about 400 to 1000. This rifle has a crappy $60 stock that needs to be replaced, but it will still hold 1.5 MOA in factory trim. The barrel is faster twist, it has a removable box mag, has a decent adjustable trigger, and it has a threaded barrel. You can add a comp or a suppressor. Adding a decent $200 stock, you will be at about $800 to $900 and cut group sizes in half at least. Add a decent scope (I prefer the Burris lines) and you actually have a rig that is good for all lower 48 game, can shoot 1MOA (or better) out to 1000 and you can cut recoil with a comp or suppressor. Stock weight is about 7 pounds, with an optic and a good aftermarket stock figure on 9 pounds.

Stock fit is important, and with a good aftermarket stock, you can get it fit for you and eliminate some issues. If you are not comfortable behind your rifle and can not repeat the NPA hold, you won't shoot with precision.
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Old February 7, 2014, 10:45 AM   #31
Bart B.
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IMHO, THE budget build do-all hunting/precision medium range target rifle is the Remington 700 AAC-SD (.308). By medium range, I mean from about 400 to 1000. This rifle has a crappy $60 stock that needs to be replaced, but it will still hold 1.5 MOA in factory trim. The barrel is faster twist, it has a removable box mag, has a decent adjustable trigger, and it has a threaded barrel. You can add a comp or a suppressor. Adding a decent $200 stock, you will be at about $800 to $900 and cut group sizes in half at least. Add a decent scope (I prefer the Burris lines) and you actually have a rig that is good for all lower 48 game, can shoot 1MOA (or better) out to 1000. . .
I don't think so if you mean that's the worst it'll shoot with hunting bullets and a detachable box magazine. But perhaps one out of several dozen 3-shot groups may well do that. The others will go up to the 2 and 3 MOA range.

And the .223 cartridge is not popular with folks wanting best accuracy at long range. The top long range military team (and others, too) scrapped that round in favor of .308 Win ammo as the .223's average scores over the years have not been as good as the 30 caliber ones produced.
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Old February 7, 2014, 01:01 PM   #32
MarkCO
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With 168s and 175 match bullets, my AAC-SD is printing 8 to 10 inches at 1000 yards. I'm still working on getting those groups to be in the center of the target, but the 5 shot groups are there.

On the .223 vs .308, I agree Bart. I'd never choose the .223 for LR, but it can be pushed there for some fun plinking if some misses are okay.
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Old February 7, 2014, 01:23 PM   #33
Bart B.
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Mark, is that the area all shots are going into and at least 15 shots per group? No shot at 1000 yards misses point of aim more than 5 inches?
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Old February 7, 2014, 04:34 PM   #34
MarkCO
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Nope, 5 shot groups. POA vs. POI...sometimes I read (or guess) the wind right and sometimes not, so no, I can't claim no more than 5" from POA.

The 5 groups I shot last, the first group was centered about 8" left of the POA. I took a few more wind readings, made an adjustment and centered the group about 2" right of POA. Got the group centered on the 3rd string.

The firing line puts my bullets about 12' above ground level about 30 feet out from the firing line, which is on it's own berm, and I was shooting in a wind that was between 15 and 20 mph from about 8 o'clock. And there are several intermediate berms. Not an excuse, just the conditions I have.

The few times I have been able to shoot with wind at 6 or 12, or still, yes, I can shoot a 5 shot group with nothing outside 5" from POA using Black Hills Match ammo. For a factory barreled action in better stock with factory ammo, that is very good.
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Old February 9, 2014, 04:30 PM   #35
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good groups from (4) cheap rifles

I got a 1903 Turkish Mauser from BIG5 for $50.
I got a 16" twist 22LR rifle from Ebay for $33.
I pulled the 8mm barrel, cut it off, bored it out.
I cut off the end of the rimfire barrel.
I turned the barrel on the lathe.
I soldered the 22 barrel into the old 8mm tenon.
I reamed out the chamber to 223.
I went to the range with 35 gr Vmax bullets hand loaded with Blue Dot.
11-30-2007
.95" 5 shot at 100 yards

------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got another $50 1903 Turkish Mauser from BIG5 that the 8mm bore looked good. The magazine spring failed and they tried to solder it back together but it failed. So this rifle missed out on the corrosive ammo experiences.
I put a scope on it.

1-3-2004
200 gr. Sierra Match King, new brass, 3.625" with Sinclair 30 calnut,
1" 5 shot group at 100m

-----------------------------------------------------
$70 VZ24 from BIG5
Lothar Walther light varmint taper 257 barrel $145
I cut threads and reamed the chamber to 257 Roberts Ackley Improved
I put a scope on it

Sept 9 2003
75 gr. Vmax ~ 3900 fps [primer pockets ruined from one shot]
0.5" 5 shot group at 100 meters

----------------------------
$175 1917 Sav 99 take down 250 sav
$75 Shilen 6mmPPC 14" twist take off barrel
I put a scope on it.
I cut threads and reamed out the chamber to 6mmBR

11-30-2007
65 gr Vmax wimpy load with all the W748 that would fit
0.1" 3 shot group at 50 yards
0.3" 3 shot group at 100 yards
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