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Old February 4, 2014, 01:30 AM   #101
JimmyR
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Let's be open minded

I personally don't feel the need to carry a long gun with me when I go out of town, as I said before:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyR View Post
Personally, when I travel out of town, I am more likely to carry a back up handgun, either a 4"-6" revolver in 357 or a FS 9mm/45.
That said, to imply that because I don't feel I need to carry a long gun means you shouldn't carry a long gun makes a number of assumptions that defy logic.

1) It equates my needs with right vs wrong.
2) It equates my needs and situation to yours.

Neither of which are safe assumptions to make.
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Old February 6, 2014, 04:42 PM   #102
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Thread still going, huh?

FWIW, I just returned from an overnight driving trip in-state to attend another recert for one of my armorer certifications. I wanted to take advantage of the trip by visiting a former partner who had retired to that area.

When I spoke with him before my trip, and told him of the area in which the hotel & training center was located, he asked me if I was going to be bringing a gun. I told him yes, as I'd already been there for another type of armorer class several years ago and was familiar with the area.

My choice for that overnight trip? My LCP.

Granted, old habits were still in force, as I took along an extra magazine for the LCP and a spare (50-rd) box of the GDHP ammo I'm currently using in it (in overnight bag).

Awareness, avoiding situations and conditions which might make my experience and common sense raise red flags, as well as keeping my mindset & tactical awareness above the snooze level, all seemed to work out fine. I didn't feel the need to bring a "working load-out" of bigger guns and ammo.

Sure, in earlier years I might've taken along an 8+1 shot 9mm or .45 carried off-duty, or even an issued 12+1 shot compact 9 or issued 7+1 shot compact .45 ... but that was then, and this is now.

Great dinner and get-together with my old friend the night before the class. We both agreed that retirement is much better than when we were still working in our old bureau.
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Last edited by fastbolt; February 6, 2014 at 04:51 PM.
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Old February 28, 2014, 02:08 PM   #103
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My concealed weapon is first. a G19.....but on the road in general...I will have more horsepower with me....the .44 Special or the .44 magnum Rugers, SA.
Not as fast, but a hell of a lot more authoratative if required.
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Old March 8, 2014, 01:03 AM   #104
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I guess as far as long guns go, being able to take down the AR 15 is a good plan for a long gun, if you are worried about an end of the world as we know it, concern, which when a thousand miles from home, it not a bad idea.

But usually, when I travel, I carry up to 3 handguns, ranging from a small very concealable .380, or 5 shot snub, along with a couple of larger guns, often a lightweight commander in a sparks summer special, and then a Glock 22 with several mags in a bag on the floor of the car, and the Glock goes in the motel with me. If I can solve the situation with the Glock 22 and half a dozen high capacity mags, then I probably can't solve it with anything.

And if I am stranded, I don't want to be seen walking down the road with a long gun.
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Old March 8, 2014, 03:00 AM   #105
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Has anybody here had a confrontation in a Hotel/Motel?

I've been all over the east and west coast, Europe, Hawaii, and haven't ever had any issues. Not saying it can't happen, but I was wondering if anyone had something they'd like to share..
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Old March 8, 2014, 02:46 PM   #106
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Closest I've come to a confrontation was next door. Lots of yelling, some screaming, but since it wasn't my room, I just called the front desk and let them handle it. They were all booted out and somebody quiet took their place a few hours later. I had my EDC in my hand during the whole thing, but was able to re-holster it without even opening my door. When traveling, I rely on just my EDC.
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Old March 9, 2014, 06:17 PM   #107
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I would say a 38 with a defensive round - minimal penetration but still enough FP to stop a threat
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Old March 9, 2014, 10:58 PM   #108
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Re: Slopemeno: ...something they'd like to share.

Following is result of collecting some data after the fact from law enforcement, Hotel/Motel management, and witness(es).

Fall, 2004 (or, maybe, 2005; my memory isn't as good as it once was). Wife and I are watching Basketball game on Motel TV in small West Texas town after a hard day's work.

Lots of noise from down the way (turns out to have been two rooms down from us) lots of yelling followed by two rapid gunshots (we think the shooter was trying to "shoot the lock off" the subject door).

Lights out, I call 911 and find that 1.) I am not even the first to report, and 2.) Am told that response is in progress.

To the surprise (we think, anyway, from the admittedly poor vantage point of the floor of our dark room) of the original shooter, someone from within the room returns fire.

Twelve, maybe fifteen seconds later (I kid you not) first one, then another Sheriff's department car arives with sirens and lights on high.

Within two minutes we have the two Sheriiff's dept. cars, two State Trooper cars, and one City PD car in the parking lot and, soon, three male and one female individuals face down with handcuffs on the parking lot and a Sheriff's deputy asking people to "please remain in your rooms and close your doors".

Within about 20 minutes, everyone's gone except the Motel manager and a single state trooper.

Backstory: Individual A shows up in his truck with a buddy and, reportedly, sees his wife's car in the Motel parking lot. He accosts the nearest (and, luckily for us, correct, door) demanding that his wife be produced. After shots fired and arrivial of several LEO, everybody leaves.

I and my wife, behind our locked door in our blacked-out room survive well enough with my EDC close at hand.

Didn't have to deploy any armed response but the general issue continues to be of concern to me.

The San Antonio Spurs won.

Otherwise, AFAIK, nobody got hurt.

Best,

Will
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Old March 10, 2014, 01:46 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YeshuaSaves
I would say a 38 with a defensive round - minimal penetration but still enough FP to stop a threat
You mean "maximum penetration"; handgun and shotgun loads will over-penetrate interior walls like crazy. If you want to minimize over-penetration you want to use a .223 hollow- or soft-point load.
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Old March 12, 2014, 04:56 PM   #110
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So you're saying all shotgun and handgun rounds over penetrat but the magical .223 round cannot? What about the .32 and .38 S&W? Or even a .44 Russian? I have a feeling any of these rounds with hollow points will not penetrate more than a .223 round.
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Old March 12, 2014, 05:11 PM   #111
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Quote:
So you're saying all shotgun and handgun rounds over penetrat but the magical .223 round cannot?
It's not that the .223 round will not over penetrate as it certainly can, but that it is far less likely to over penetrate than 9mm or 12g 00 buck for example. The nature of the .223/5.56 round makes it fragment when it hits barriers and even soft tissue. It's only a 55-65gr projetile (on average) being pushed at velocities upwards of as high as 3000fps, you push any projectile fast enough that is made of soft lead and a copper jacket and it will fragment as can be seen with even handgun rounds like the 125gr .357's when you push them too fast.

When I lived in an apartment complex, I used #4 buckshot in my 12g as it is still a great SD round but will penetrate less than 00 buckshot.

Last edited by Dragline45; March 12, 2014 at 05:26 PM.
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Old March 12, 2014, 05:25 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WV_gunner
So you're saying all shotgun and handgun rounds over penetrat but the magical .223 round cannot? What about the .32 and .38 S&W? Or even a .44 Russian? I have a feeling any of these rounds with hollow points will not penetrate more than a .223 round.
I'm not saying it can't penetrate walls, I'm saying it usually penetrates less through walls. I'm actually amazed that this isn't common knowledge by now considering how much it's brought up on these forums: A .223 soft- or hollow-point will penetrate through walls less than almost any handgun or shotgun load. Even a .22 LR.

It's not because the .223 is a "magical round". It's because it's a small bullet going very fast. When it hits drywall, its velocity causes it to rapidly fragment, dumping energy very quickly. Whereas handgun rounds and shotgun pellets are going much more slowly and therefore they don't usually fragment, even the hollow-points. And because they don't fragment, they retain their energy longer and usually penetrate further.

There are a lot of tests online, but ignore the ones using FMJ .223; I'm not talking about FMJs, I'm talking about soft- and hollow-points one would normally use for home defense. Here's one test showing what I'm talking about. And here's another test. Also, feel free to try it yourself. Once you think about the physics involved, it makes perfect sense.

EDIT: It looks like Dragline45 beat me to it. I need to learn to type faster on this phone .
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Last edited by Theohazard; March 12, 2014 at 05:37 PM.
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Old March 12, 2014, 06:43 PM   #113
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It is common knowledge I'd say by now that theory exist. But not that it's true. When it comes to theories, I'm a more see it to believe it type. I'm sure I can search the Internet to find an expert that'll say anything I want. So what is fact? What isn't? No way of really knowing for sure without first hand experience. I don't own a .223 anymore , it was a NEF, or I'd try it myself. Drywall is pretty flimsy. And honestly, I've seen apartment buildings with paneling, any kind of real gun will go through that. I've also seen apartments with 1/4 inch drywall, not everyone uses 5/8ths. On the other hand some have doubled up firewall between apartments.
Something else to consider, I do not know the ballistics of a .30-30 off hand or how they compare to a .223 round. But, if memory serves correctly, at around 75 yards a .30-30 with 150 grain jacketed bullets will put a hole in a spinning target rated for a .44 Magum. Meanwhile 9mm fmj at 10 yards will only scratch it. I know that the .30-30 doesn't have the speed of a .223 but I still think its something to consider. I think light handgun loads are the way to go for homes or hotels even. I keep a Rossi Circuit Judge loaded with LeveRevolution .45 Colt for my home.
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Old March 12, 2014, 07:56 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WV_gunner
It is common knowledge I'd say by now that theory exist. But not that it's true. When it comes to theories, I'm a more see it to believe it type. I'm sure I can search the Internet to find an expert that'll say anything I want. So what is fact? What isn't? No way of really knowing for sure without first hand experience.
Keep in mind that the scientific definition of a theory is "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method, and repeatedly confirmed through observation and experimentation." And this is a theory that has been very well-substantiated throughout countless tests, whether the tests are performed by the average Joe in his backyard, or by the FBI and law enforcement agencies around the country. That's one of the reasons law enforcement agencies have been replacing their shotguns and sub-machine guns with AR-15s and M4s: They're worried about over-penetration.

You can hold off against all the evidence until you actually try it yourself, and that's fine. But keep in mind that there are a lot of things that most people accept as true even though they haven't seen or tested it themselves: I've never seen an atom, but I'm pretty sure they exist; I've never seen anyone who was infected by the Ebola virus, but I'm pretty sure it's deadly; I've never fired or seen anyone fire a 500 S&W Magnum, but I'm pretty sure it has a lot of recoil.

The key is not to disbelieve everything until you try it yourself; the key is to be critical of evidence provided by others until you're satisfied that the evidence they've presented is valid. And that's why I provided links to those two tests, one of which was done by an average guy and the other was done by the staff at Gunsite. And if you search around you'll see a lot of other good information that confirms the results of those tests. Here's an article by a retired 20-year FBI agent who specialized in SWAT and special operations and did extensive weapons testing. He references the tests done by the FBI that also confirmed the theory that .223 defensive rounds penetrate less than most other firearms.
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Old March 12, 2014, 10:47 PM   #115
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I realize it's counter-intuitive, but .223 is actually a pretty good HD round. I'm solidly in the 12 gauge camp, but it's only because I'm too old/cheap/stuck in CA to change now...

Hey, think of it this way- here's a role for all those "horribly inaccurate" Mini-14s. Your POI can't wander enough for it to matter down a 40' hallway.

Check Box of Truth if you don't believe. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm
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Old March 29, 2014, 03:22 PM   #116
106RR
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I use G19s for defense on the road. My reasons are that my wife is trained on that specific gun is has no confidence in others. I can use anything. They are both loaded with 147gr HST Federal. We have taken couples self defense class and we know how to fight as a team.
I carry a Marlin 94 357 mag carbine on certain trips. The Marlin goes along on trips close to the Mexican border, areas controlled by gangs like North Salinas Ca, known drug import points such as Freedom, Ca, wilderness areas like central Idaho, drug growing and smuggling centers such as Northern Ca.
The Marlin is the only carbine she can use. She abhors shotguns. If I go alone, I bring an 870P with low recoil slugs. Either of these fit in the leg of my waders for concealment. They usually stay in the back of the Subaru in urban areas.
We bring electronic muffs for hearing protection and to identify noises. We also carry traumas kits, CB, etc.
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Old March 30, 2014, 10:50 AM   #117
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Really guys? Can we stow the over penetration crap? We all know that any bullet worth relying on for SD will go through walls and kill people on the other side. .223 soft points may not go through as many walls but they still do.

Quote:
Has anybody here had a confrontation in a Hotel/Motel?
Kinda sorta but not really.

When I was in my early 20s I was staying in an extended stay motel. I woke at 4:00 am to a awful noise coming from my heater/air conditioner unit. I rolled out of bed and started beating on it with my fist and swearing at it. The noise stopped imedeatly and I wend back to bed. When the alarm went off and I turned the light on I saw that the heater/air conditioner had been pushed into my room leaving a hole big enough for a person to crawl through.
I assume my pounding on the side of the unit scared off whoever was breaking into my room. After that I started taking my P226 with me.

Never had any other incidents.
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Old March 30, 2014, 12:53 PM   #118
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I think something like a full size double action .357 revolver with a 2-4" bbl would be ideal for a car/hotel travel type gun. My preference would be either a Ruger GP100 or S&W 686, both with a 4" tube.

Load the magnums for in the car when fighting might well be on the side of some highway or at a gas stop, and load some nice .38 +Ps for inside the hotel room for less blast and noise.

Works for me!
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Old March 30, 2014, 04:19 PM   #119
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How would you secure all these firearms on the road? Neither the hotel or the car are appropriate places. How are you going to leisurely carry around any of this? I say anything beyond a compact pistol will be a no-go.

I have stayed in all kinds of hotels but never stayed in one where I felt I needed a rifle. This isnt Afghanistan.
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Old March 30, 2014, 06:13 PM   #120
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Quote:
On the Road: Best car/hotel SD weapon?
Pack what you pack.

Long guns? What do you shoot best?

Just take what you can shoot best and are very familiar with.

And keep it simple. No use taking 6 guns and not being able to manage them.

When I go on a trip, I take my carry gun and my M1 Carbine. I MIGHT bring a backup pistol but might not.

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Old March 31, 2014, 12:34 AM   #121
Model12Win
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I like to keep my AR-15 equipped with a 3-9X optic with six 30 rounds Pmags loaded with SS109 in the trunk in case things get "rangey" (just made that word up) or I'm caught out changing a flat tire, encounter a roadblock, etc. and need some long range defense.

For the hotel I keep my FN SLP Mk. 1 automatic shotgun loaded with eight rounds of 00 buck. I run a Glock 21 Gen 4 with night sights and tac light as a backup to the shotgun, with a S&W 642 snubby as tertiary backup.

In case things get REALLY sketchy I also bring along a separate upper for my AR. It is a SAW style, belt fed heavy barrel mod with a 200 round M249 disintegrating belt with an attached Elcan machine gun optic. I also carry a Slide Fire stock that I can switch out the standard 6 position adjustable on the AR for, and this gives me 900 rounds per minute of suppressive fire in the event of multiple hostiles etc. etc.

This pretty much covers most things for me when I travel.

YMMV.
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Old March 31, 2014, 04:05 AM   #122
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Where are all these proverbial danger spots everyone is referring to? Dodge City?
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Old March 31, 2014, 03:24 PM   #123
johnelmore
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I dont see the point here. When was the last time you took the AR15 to the Motel 6 for self defense. IMHO this is ridiculous.
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Old March 31, 2014, 03:56 PM   #124
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Quote:
I dont see the point here. When was the last time you took the AR15 to the Motel 6 for self defense. IMHO this is ridiculous.
I have to agree with this.

On the rare occasions that I do travel, I take the same gun I carry everyday, my Browning 1910 .380.

Sounds like an awful lot of paranoia in this thread.
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Old March 31, 2014, 04:12 PM   #125
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I can only assume Model12Win is joking in post #121. At least I hope he is...
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