The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old February 4, 2014, 10:25 AM   #1
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 5,598
CHL Sentenced to 42 Years for Shooting

Source: http://m.jsonline.com/more/news/crim...239316951.html

Summary: A CHL is invited out for a night on the town by his girlfriend's brother. He is in a car with 4 guys, one of whom he has had prior disagreements with. At some point he becomes uncomfortable and asks to be dropped off at his car. The guy he has previous issues with gets offended, pulls him out of the car and begins beating him unprovoked (according to all witnesses). After being knocked to the ground and having his shirt pulled up around his head, he gets back up, pulls his gun and shoots his assailant in the face at a distance of about 8 feet (which is what he estimated for police investigators but at trial he said he was foggy on details). This is the first time he has ever shot a gun.

Subsequently he is charged and convicted by the jury. According to a local radio show, the distance, the prior disagreement, and statements made to police immediately after the shooting that conflicted with his trial testimony caused the jury to conclude it was a "revenge" shooting and not a defensive one. The same story cites another CHL who shot an unarmed man but was acquitted.

I thought there were some valuable discussion issues here. On it's face, it looks as though all the elements of Ability, Opportunity, and Jeopardy were satisfied to meet the requirements for self-defense. Yet this man was sentenced to 42 years because it was "just a fist fight." I think this story highlights how dangerous an emcounter between a CHL and an unarmed person can be for the CHL.

Some points particularly worth highlighting:
1. Not doing stupid things with stupid people is still one of the best ways to avoid stupid situations.
2. His testimony to police after the incident (without a lawyer) not only didn't help him avoid arrest, it also helped convict him.
3. Right or wrong, many people do not see "just a fist fight" as justification for use of lethal force.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old February 4, 2014, 10:46 AM   #2
SHE3PDOG
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2013
Posts: 884
I agree with the jury, I don't see how he could possibly feel that his life was in danger when one of the other guys was trying to get between the two when he fired. I don't think this is a clear cut case of self defense at all.

The other case talked about in the article says that the victim was being chased by a group and that he fired a warning shot before shooting his assailants. Those are very important differences, and I don't think the two cases really offer much for comparison apart from the fact that the assailants were unarmed.
__________________
Semper Fi

Marine, NRA member, SAF Defender's Club member, and constitutionally protected keeper and bearer of firearms
SHE3PDOG is offline  
Old February 4, 2014, 10:51 AM   #3
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 5,598
Quote:
Those are very important differences, and I don't think the two cases really offer much for comparison apart from the fact that the assailants were unarmed.
That is a very strong common denominator between almost every CHL prosecution I've read about - Gerald Ung, Paul Hickey, George Zimmerman, etc.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old February 4, 2014, 11:23 AM   #4
carguychris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 5,278
Attention Mods...

I think this case has already been discussed here:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=539595
__________________
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak
carguychris is offline  
Old February 4, 2014, 11:31 AM   #5
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague County, Texas
Posts: 10,230
Story already under discussion here last month...
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ghlight=permit
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher."
-- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
Double Naught Spy is offline  
Old February 4, 2014, 11:39 AM   #6
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 17,501
It's tempting to let this run, as it has a decidedly different tone and direction than the previous thread but, ultimately, it HAS already been hashed out pretty thoroughly including the 3 (excellent) points made in this OP and the link apparently requires a membership to read the article.
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
You do not HAVE a soul. You ARE a soul. You HAVE a body.
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.07627 seconds with 9 queries