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Old January 15, 2014, 08:44 AM   #1
5-SHOTS
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.22L.R. revolver hammer spring question

Hi experts of TFL, I have a Weihrauch HW9 Target Trophy revolver that is not reliable enought for my tastes when shooting double action (no problems when shooting single action).
I'm thinking a slightly overpowered hammer spring can cure the problem but I can't find anything listed for my revolver. I'm sure Wolff could have something but I don't really know which pack or kit (general purpose or even made for another handgun) to get.
Here is the dimentions of the spring I have:
esternal diameter: 4.9mm (about 1/5'');
internal diameter: 3.3mm (about 1/8'');
diameter of the wire: 0.8mm (about 1/30'');
lenght: 48mm (about 1'' 7/8);
number of coils: 26.
I'm thinking that a longer spring with one or two coils more can solve the issue.
Is there anything similar on the market?

Best regards, 5-SHOTS.
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Old January 15, 2014, 12:22 PM   #2
Snyper
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Adding a solid shim or spacer would have the same effect as a longer spring
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Old January 15, 2014, 01:29 PM   #3
5-SHOTS
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Quote:
Adding a solid shim or spacer would have the same effect as a longer spring
Thank you Snyper but I've already tried that without many success. Adding just a 1/14'' spacer makes nearly impossible to put the hammer spring assembly together and I need probably a 1/7'' spacer which probably can't fit. I'm guessing that one more coil (wich adds only 1/30'' more when the spring is compressed) or even two can solve my issue.
Again, I don't know where I can find such a spring.
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Old January 15, 2014, 01:33 PM   #4
g.willikers
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Have you tried the small spring department of the local hardware store?
I needed a hammer spring for an old rifle and danged if they didn't have one that worked perfectly.
It was a little too long, but otherwise right on the mark.
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Old January 15, 2014, 09:08 PM   #5
James K
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Unfortunately, a longer or heavier spring will also make the trigger pull heavier. One solution might be to try a different kind of ammo. Often target ammo or standard velocity ammo has case brass that is thinner than that of high velocity ammo and will fire with a lighter hammer blow.

Jim
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Old January 16, 2014, 06:27 AM   #6
5-SHOTS
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Quote:
Have you tried the small spring department of the local hardware store?
I needed a hammer spring for an old rifle and danged if they didn't have one that worked perfectly.
It was a little too long, but otherwise right on the mark.
Thanks g.willikers, I've just e-mailed Weihrauch Germany and they asked me my address, hopefully to send me a different spring. Anyway I'll also try what you suggested.

Quote:
Unfortunately, a longer or heavier spring will also make the trigger pull heavier. One solution might be to try a different kind of ammo. Often target ammo or standard velocity ammo has case brass that is thinner than that of high velocity ammo and will fire with a lighter hammer blow.

Jim
Thanks Jim, I'm aware of the havier trigger pull, but I've decided I prefere that over unreliability. Even when new the trigger pull of my Weihrauch was surprisingly light for a rimfire revolver and that could be the problem...
I've also tried different type of ammo. The only 100% reliable ammo I found when I want to shoot DA is Fiocchi 40gr. MAXAC that is almost always available at my local gun shop. I simply don't want to limit my choices of ammo. I'm also aware that probably my revolver is made to be basically a SAO gun, so maybe the problem it's ME .
Anyway I have a plan B: get a Ruger LCR22 .

Thanks to everybody, other suggestions and news about aftermarket springs will be appreciated.

Best regards, 5-SHOTS.
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Old January 16, 2014, 01:48 PM   #7
hal9000
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This isn't specific to your model, but I had a similar issue with a Ruger 10-22 that I built up a few years back. Rather than adding a stronger spring, the Ruger crowd focused on profiling the firing pin to ensure good strikes.

It will depend on the shape/configuration of your pin, but thinning it to reduce the footprint, or focus the strike on the primer area instead of the center of the cartridge will maximize the power of the stock spring and effectively increase the striking power.

Also, if your gun has a fairly tight chamber, make sure that it's going into full battery when shooting semi auto. If the bolt doesn't drive the cartridge quite all the way home, then the firing pin may just push the round forward rather than firing it.

Finally, experiment with different brands of ammo. Some guns just don't like certain flavors.
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Old January 17, 2014, 10:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
This isn't specific to your model, but I had a similar issue with a Ruger 10-22 that I built up a few years back. Rather than adding a stronger spring, the Ruger crowd focused on profiling the firing pin to ensure good strikes.

It will depend on the shape/configuration of your pin, but thinning it to reduce the footprint, or focus the strike on the primer area instead of the center of the cartridge will maximize the power of the stock spring and effectively increase the striking power.
Hi hal9000, good point. The problem is that taking out the firing pin on my revolver is a PITA and if I do something wrong I'm in trouble. The spring solution IMHO is the simpler one and it's also reversible.

Quote:
Also, if your gun has a fairly tight chamber, make sure that it's going into full battery when shooting semi auto. If the bolt doesn't drive the cartridge quite all the way home, then the firing pin may just push the round forward rather than firing it.
Don't forget my gun is a revolver... I push the rounds through and through in the chambers to avoid the issue you describe.

In the mourning I've tried to find something at my local hardware shops whithout any luck.
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Old January 17, 2014, 01:44 PM   #9
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Gotcha, I missed the revolver part. That takes one diagnosis off the table at least. Although I guess that if the cylinder has any of forward/back play that could have the same effect. It didn't cause a misfire, but my father had to have his S&W 629 rebuilt after about 10K rounds due to end play in the cylinder. A 22 is less likely to see that kind of wear and tear but it can't hurt to check it out.

Maybe buy a new firing pin, profile it, then swap it out. That way you aren't committed to anything but the labor to do the swap and the price of a pin and its completely reversible.

Is there any kind of a hammer stop on that gun to prevent it from punching holes in the cartridge?
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Old January 18, 2014, 06:48 AM   #10
5-SHOTS
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Quote:
Gotcha, I missed the revolver part. That takes one diagnosis off the table at least. Although I guess that if the cylinder has any of forward/back play that could have the same effect. It didn't cause a misfire, but my father had to have his S&W 629 rebuilt after about 10K rounds due to end play in the cylinder. A 22 is less likely to see that kind of wear and tear but it can't hurt to check it out.
The cylinder end-shake is neglegible and after almost 4000 rounds it's not changed. One of the last range trips I fired a box of Fiocchi .22 Short and the strikes were violent enought to deform the rim of those cases. I think a little more power in the hammer spring can produce the same thing on .22L.R. rims.

Quote:
Maybe buy a new firing pin, profile it, then swap it out. That way you aren't committed to anything but the labor to do the swap and the price of a pin and its completely reversible.
It takes alot of time to have an original firing pin. The firing-pin pin plug is screwed to the frame and then punched in the rim to prevent unwanted unscrew. You also need a tool to unscrew the plug. I think it's a job that must have done at factory. Too long process.

Quote:
Is there any kind of a hammer stop on that gun to prevent it from punching holes in the cartridge?
You mean an internal safety? If so, yes, there is a safety bar; I think the design is the same of Hi-Standard Sentinel revolvers. It also have a rebound hammer like a SIG-Sauer, so after the hammer falls, even if you keep the trigger pulled, the hammer itself doesn't touch the firing pin and it doesn't push the firing pin to protrude from the recoil shield. So the firing pin hits the primer for an instant and then returns in its rest position.
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Old January 18, 2014, 08:25 AM   #11
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Here is a pic of my revolver from the Weihrauch official site (http://www.hermann-weihrauch-revolve...3_14_15_16.htm).
It's also known as the EAA Windicator.
Mine has a cast steel frame, just like a Ruger, and a zinc-alloy trigger-grip sub-frame. It's a good revolver for the price, very accurate and fun to shoot.
It's also very similar in design to Charter Arms revolvers: maybe I can try an extra-power spring made for the Bulldog that can fit.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Weihrauch HW 9 T.T..jpg (60.4 KB, 6 views)

Last edited by 5-SHOTS; January 18, 2014 at 08:39 AM.
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Old January 19, 2014, 10:52 PM   #12
hal9000
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5 shots, what I was referring to (and forgive me if this seems like a foolish suggestion, my knowledge of revolvers is actually somewhat limited) was if there is any kind of overtravel stop on the hammer or firing pin. My thought process was that if there is maybe it was slightly out of calibration and limiting the travel of the hammer or pin just slightly.

Since you said the hammer is heavily deforming 22 shorts I'd say that's not the problem. I wouldn't have thought there would be any difference in the amount of deformation between a short and a standard LR cartridge though. That kind of surprises me. Thinner case brass?
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Old January 20, 2014, 09:28 AM   #13
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Quote:
5 shots, what I was referring to (and forgive me if this seems like a foolish suggestion, my knowledge of revolvers is actually somewhat limited) was if there is any kind of overtravel stop on the hammer or firing pin. My thought process was that if there is maybe it was slightly out of calibration and limiting the travel of the hammer or pin just slightly.

Since you said the hammer is heavily deforming 22 shorts I'd say that's not the problem. I wouldn't have thought there would be any difference in the amount of deformation between a short and a standard LR cartridge though. That kind of surprises me. Thinner case brass?
Yes hal, there's an overtravel trigger stop that is calibrated for SA shooting (when the trigger and the hammer have the longer travel); I don't think the problem is there because everything works perfect (the hammer is released correctly both SA and DA, the timing is perfect, etc.).
For the experience I have with revolvers, I can say the trigger pull is extremely light for a rimfire revolver, both SA and DA, on pair or even an hair lighter than most centerfire revolvers; probably if it was a centerfire revolver I'll have no problems with DA light strikes. I forgot to mention that I fired the box of .22 Short DA and I had no problems; it's probably a matter of how much a rim is hard and/or thick and a slightly underpowered hammer spring they have chosen to have a light SA trigger pull. I could be wrong but I think a new hammer spring is the simpler (and cheaper) way to try to fix the problem. As I said, If that doesn't work I'll keep my Weihrauch the way it is and I'll buy another toy to practice DAO.
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Old January 23, 2014, 06:34 AM   #14
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Update

Yesterday mourning I've received a new spring and a new swivel from the Weihrauch factory and installed them. I've tested the gun at the range in the afternoon with some ammunition that were problematic before the fix: no more misfires when shooting DA. For some reason the trigger is even better than it was before. I've carefully checked the hammer travel and it is actually way shorter when shooting DA than SA: a design choice I guess, because everything works perfectly.
I'm an happy Weihrauch customer .
Best regards, 5-SHOTS.
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Old January 24, 2014, 04:24 PM   #15
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What the hell kind of measurements are those ? Coil spring measurements need to be in U.S. inches . Is the present spring not firing the gun ? You don't want a longer , or shorter spring . You want one with the same number of coils per inch and larger wire , all other measurements should remain the same . Using a longer spring can cause other problems (spring bind) or it might stack enough to not allow the sear to engage in single action mode . Brownell's sells two different spring assortments . I have them both , but still hardly ever have what I need in them . take a look at a Ruger Redhawk spring kit , you may find one there . I found a source for every size coil spring made . Only problem is the $50.00 min. order ! LOL
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