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Old January 11, 2014, 01:17 PM   #1
ClydeFrog
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Local chain of gun ranges bans rental firearms.....

Shoot Straight, a large chain of gun shops & ranges started a new SOP that no longer allows any firearm rentals.
The ranges are in Florida & have become very popular with tourists who like to shoot different guns they might not be able to use any other way.
The owner/CEO made the change after several suicides in the metro Orlando area.
I think the insurance premiums & civil actions/legal fees may have made a big part of the business policy.

As I've stated in a few other topics & other gun forums, I go during the off-hours, M-Thu, 1000am-100pm mostly to use ranges like Shoot Straight. There are fewer distractions & it's safer. I've shot a few rental guns too & most have been sub-standard. They were either dirty or the range mandated ammunition was poor quality.

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Old January 11, 2014, 01:36 PM   #2
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Suicides at ranges renting guns has been a problem for some time. Around here the ranges which rent guns will rent one only if someone either comes in with a friend or already has a gun with him.
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Old January 11, 2014, 02:17 PM   #3
SC4006
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Quote:
Around here the ranges which rent guns will rent one only if someone either comes in with a friend or already has a gun with him.
The indoor range that I go to most often has that exact same policy when it comes to rentals. It's a pretty simple requirement, and I think it's a good idea.
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Old January 11, 2014, 02:37 PM   #4
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Shoot Straight down in Central/South Florida? Heard a lot of stories of suicides there in the news, so as sad as it is, it's not surprising for the business owner.
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Old January 11, 2014, 03:28 PM   #5
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You'd think adding a few more lines about liability and having and increasing fees to cover insurance would do it. Maybe having a refundable deposit large enough to cover insurance costs as well.

Gun rentals are a large chunk of change for most ranges. I doubt they'd give it up easy.
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Old January 11, 2014, 04:51 PM   #6
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Buddys; CCTVs....

A murder-suicide which is on www.youtube.com (but does not contain the shooting event) took place in Orlando Florida a few years ago. A mom & her teen son rented handguns, then the mom shot son.
Friends, relatives etc isn't a bad concept but doesn't insure someone is stable/responsible.

I will agree that rental places(many in high tourist traffic areas) make a lot of $$$. They can be safe with range officers, CCTV systems, SOPs(no holster use, no more than 2 shooters in a booth/lane, mandated safety training, etc).
Gander Mountain Academy in Lake Mary Florida(an upscale community) has gun ranges too but I have yet to hear of any NDs or suicides there. To my knowledge, they do not rent any firearms; rifles or handguns either.
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Old January 11, 2014, 05:33 PM   #7
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If you run a public range long enough, it's an occupational hazard. You do your best to prevent it through having the right policies, procedures, and legal coverage, but someone who's determined enough will find a way.

Refusing to rent guns might mitigate the problem, but there have been suicides on public ranges with personally owned weapons. In the end, all the range is doing is cutting off a huge source of revenue.
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Old January 11, 2014, 05:44 PM   #8
Doogle
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You could end up with the situation we have in some ranges here...>

... (Australia) where the rental guns are tethered to the shooting bench via a flexible frame & wire setup that limits the movement (cannot be turned around), and secures them. It sounds clumsy but in use it's not too restrictive for normal target shooting. However, even with such arrangements people will kill themselves if they are determined. Years back someone climbed over the shooting bench and placed themselves in front of a tethered shotgun and pulled, (or rather from that position, pushed), the trigger.

Shooters with licenses and their own firearms do not need to have their weapons tethered.
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Old January 12, 2014, 02:56 AM   #9
ClydeFrog
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Revenue; lawsuits...

I agree that not renting firearms may cause a huge loss in $$$ but lawsuits/bad PR may build up over time.

A small business(gun range) could have a SOP where only certain customers could rent weapons. Documented veterans, gun or CCW license holders, active or retired corrections/sworn LE, EMTs/firefighters etc.
I would feel safer if I were at a public access range where I knew the other shooters had documented training/licenses.

That too, isn't a complete guarantee. See the tragic murder of former SEAL Sniper; Chris Kyle in Texas by a USMC veteran with PTSD. Kyle took the veteran to a gun range & the guy snapped shooting Chris Kyle and another victim.
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Old January 12, 2014, 03:50 AM   #10
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And it could be that the owner or the folks on the board of directors of the chain find it a moral issue in which they're just doing what makes them sleep better at night. If enough folks off themselves with your products, policies, and procedures- yeah, I'd imagine that would get old pretty quick.
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Old January 12, 2014, 10:28 AM   #11
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Well crap.
Here's hoping this idea doesn't catch on.
I really like going to a range and renting a variety of guns to try.
Especially when we go on vacation and don't take any with us.
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Old January 12, 2014, 03:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
Well crap.
Here's hoping this idea doesn't catch on.
I really like going to a range and renting a variety of guns to try.
My thoughts exactly.
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Old January 12, 2014, 05:33 PM   #13
ClydeFrog
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Rare vs common....

I agree that it's a pain or a annoying to a gun owner/gun forum member but if you look at the other side it seems understandable to a business owner/staff employee.
Some unstable or unbalanced person can see a local media item about a rental gun range, then say; "hey, I can kill myself there".
2/3 in a large metro area would seem normal for most major cities per calendar year. But 1/2 incidents a calendar month?
That's too much.
I wouldn't want to be a gun range staff member & need to play "Dr Phil" with every customer that walks in.
It's a tragic reality that we all must deal with in today's world.
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Old January 12, 2014, 05:39 PM   #14
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And I'm sure this effort, which will keep new shooters from trying new guns and impact their profitability, will prevent those wishing to commit suicide from doing so....
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Old January 13, 2014, 11:25 AM   #15
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It seems strange that the article headline uses the word "ban." The stores just simply decided to stop renting firearms. While it is common for private indoor ranges to also rent guns, this has no effect on any other store or range.
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Old January 13, 2014, 12:40 PM   #16
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I, too, am a bit put off by the use of "banned." Nothing has been banned. A commercial service has been withdrawn from the market for what may be a variety of reasons. Nobody's decision but theirs.

Here is a direct connection to the article cited: LINK
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Old January 17, 2014, 06:47 PM   #17
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solution banning rental guns

The solution is not to ban guns, but ban attorneys that represent sewers (pun intended). If someone wants to go to a range and rent a firearm to end their life, it's not the range's fault, and should not affect insurance rates. If someone decides to jump off a bridge, can you sue the bridge owner? Maybe we should get rid of all bridges. This country is nuts. Just have a policy that suicide committers arrange to clean up their mess so the range doesn't have to do it. And have the attorneys come out for target practice.
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Old January 17, 2014, 07:36 PM   #18
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcomst
The solution is not to ban guns, but ban attorneys that represent sewers (pun intended). If someone wants to go to a range and rent a firearm to end their life, it's not the range's fault, and should not affect insurance rates....
That's not even the primary issue. Do you have any idea how much thoroughly unpleasant work it is to clean things up after someone has blown his brains out on your property -- blood, body fluids including urine and feces, bone fragments, bits of brain and other assorted tissues? And while that's being done, the range is shut down. In fact one has to bring in professionals to do it.

It is also the sort of thing that very badly upsets employees and customers -- both of which are bad for business.

In fact I'm not aware of ranges at which suicides have taken place even having much in the way of legal or liability issues. But dealing with the aftermath, clean-up and disruption of business is a significant issue.
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Old January 17, 2014, 08:02 PM   #19
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I have never heard of someone killing themselves or someone else at a range here. Club firearms can be used here under supervision.
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Old January 17, 2014, 11:15 PM   #20
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Because if I am planning suicide I would consider the cost savings of renting over buying.

I guess if you have delays in your state.
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Old January 17, 2014, 11:27 PM   #21
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Let's not take a glib tone on suicide. It's a complex problem, and it takes a certain hopelessness and despair few of us can understand to drive someone to that point. If you've got insight into the problem, by all means offer suggestions. Otherwise, let's save the Psych 101 to the professionals.

I can tell you that cerebrospinal fluid is slippery stuff, and even if the employees aren't involved with the physical cleanup, they have to deal with the mental and emotional issues. All those just-above-minimum-wage lackeys gun folks love to disparage? Find me another field where folks in that situation would be back at work the next day.
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Old January 18, 2014, 11:06 AM   #22
Double Naught Spy
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Quote:
A small business(gun range) could have a SOP where only certain customers could rent weapons. Documented veterans, gun or CCW license holders, active or retired corrections/sworn LE, EMTs/firefighters etc.
I would feel safer if I were at a public access range where I knew the other shooters had documented training/licenses.
Trained people commit suicide as well and seems to be particularly higher in some of the groups you mentioned.
http://swampland.time.com/2014/01/10...ng-young-vets/
http://www.tearsofacop.com/police/articles/lewis.html
http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/m...issue_id=52012
http://www.firefighterclosecalls.com...0593/layout/no

Your list of candidates looks more like a list of people in the community that we should respect more so than any sort of list of people that are particularly immune to suicide or that have any particular gun handling skills that prevent suicide. Your EMTs/Firefighters category doesn't even include people with mandatory firearms training. Sure they have training, but not firearms training.

Quote:
I, too, am a bit put off by the use of "banned." Nothing has been banned. A commercial service has been withdrawn from the market for what may be a variety of reasons. Nobody's decision but theirs.
Well said.
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