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Old January 13, 2014, 01:43 PM   #1
goodolsavage
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Opinion about carcano?

I have the last series of carcano. The what i call "modern" 1981 since its almost identical except like 2 inches shorter and it's not a gain twist. But i love the gun and it feels so well put together and yes it IS accurate. I know these guns get a lot of bad rep but why? The steel is very strong and the bolt has 2 locking lugs and a 3rd locking point at the bolt. The action.. Some are very smooth but mine hasn't been shot much so it is still a little stiff but it's not to bad. I dont know what wood they used but its light and feels good and surprisingly strong. I've held a mosin and honestly it feels like it was thrown together compared to it.. So i want your guys opinion on this rifle and why you have it.
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Old January 13, 2014, 08:36 PM   #2
JohnMoses
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I read a story once that a documentary producer hired Dave Emary, Hornady's chief ballistician, to blow up a carcano to prove on camera that carcanos are junk and could not have been used to assassinate a US president. No problem. Dave filled the case with the fastest pistol powder he could find, and stuffed the heaviest bullet he could find in it. Despite the 400% overload and repeated trys, the gun held. finally he filled the case with a plastic explosive and got his money shot.
I bought my first carcano with the intension of recreating Oswald's shot. I am not as enamored with the Carcano as you, but is light, handy, accurate, and pleasant to shoot. Once I researched the ranges that Oswald took his shots, I realized they were quite easy, well within the capabilities of the rifle and shooter. I remember a Warren era interview with a Marine commander that stated the shots would be trying for his best snipers, impossible for a layman. BS.
There are some reports of rifles blowing up unexpectedly. The Carcano uses .268 bullet diameter vrs the more common .264(6.5). Some bullet manufacturers would 'bump up' their .264 bullets to .268 causing jacket/core separation, leaving the jacket in the bore as the lead core squirted out the barrel. The next shot would destroy the gun.
I hope you enjoy your carcano. With proper ammo, It should shoot well.
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Old January 13, 2014, 09:12 PM   #3
sgms
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Check out the Yesterdays weapons forum and go to the Italian firearms section, a lot of really good info on the carcano's there.
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Old January 14, 2014, 02:06 AM   #4
WardenWolf
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There honestly wasn't a huge performance difference between the main bolt action rifles of all the major players in World War II. They were all equally capable in skilled hands, for all intents and purposes. The longest confirmed sniper kill in World War II was with the "crude" Mosin Nagant, at just over half a mile. And I have seen videos of someone hitting man-sized steel targets at 650 yards with the iron sights of an Arisaka 99. The limit was not the gun, but the shooter, in almost all cases.

The Carcano isn't one of the better-known rifles, and history is written by the victors. That doesn't mean it was a bad gun, it just means not many people actually know about them. All these rifles were, for the most part, equal.
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Old January 14, 2014, 04:16 AM   #5
DaleA
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Stephen Hunter wrote a fictional book about the Kennedy assassination that has quite a bit of information about the Carcano in it.

“The Third Bullet”

http://www.amazon.com/The-Third-Bull...+swagger+novel

If you like fictional books that include a lot of details about guns and shooting he has written several.
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Old January 14, 2014, 07:06 AM   #6
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I picked up a Berretta Carcano in really nice original shape from a buddy of mine looking to thin his collections... I'm not sure the models, but I put it in with my milsurps collection... mine is a "6.5"

I think the clip ejecting out the bottom & & need for a clip for the rifle to function limits it's aftermarket shoot ability, but I hand load, & look forward to the time I have enough extra to play with loads for mine... I have no doubt it will be accurate, with the right load...

as a side... the original sight is quite interesting on mine, & I like quirky guns

I assume being made by Berretta, that it's a quality rifle ???
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Old January 14, 2014, 10:52 AM   #7
Smokey Joe
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Carcano...

Had an opportunity to shoot a Carcano carbine within a year of the Kennedy assassination. Nice accurate rifle, IMHO. I was shooting competitively in college at the time. Any trained shooter could have made "the shot."

Us college kids were just devastated by this event.

I would NOT have one myself, for 2 reasons: (1) The association with the Kennedy assassination, and (2) The clip which is necessary for the rifle to function, but which drops out the bottom of the magazine when the last round is fired. (And with my luck, gets lost in the woods.) Fine for a military arm, when the Gummint is paying for ammo and supplying it, but not so good for private use when I have to supply the clips. (The same complaint I have about the Garand.)
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Old January 14, 2014, 12:39 PM   #8
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Not so much the shooters ability as the area. It is easy to see why a Russian bolt rifle would shoot a record. It was not a better gun or shooter, the area was usually snow covered. In the Marines we shot .308 and .223 at 500 yards to qualify. If you have a good backdrop to set something off, you can really can do some long range shooting.
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Old January 17, 2014, 09:23 PM   #9
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Our opinions on these rifles were really shaped by the WW2 generations' attitudes towards the Italians, and incidentally too, the Japanese. Compared to the Mauser, the Carcano is an inferior action, but then, so was the M1903.

But the Carcano was a well designed and rugged action, the cartridge today is equal in power to our "intermediate" rounds, if not a bit more powerful, the rifle was used by the Finns in cold extremes and it was used in the deserts of North Africa. American prejudices to Italian equipment were based more on the fighting abilities of poorly lead and poorly motivated Italian Armies than to technical deficiencies in the rifle itself. The WW2 generation also had an incredible distaste and hate of the Japanese people and anything Japanese. Most had heard that the Japanese issued "cast iron rifles" and so were very disdainful of the Arisaka.. After examining the Arisaka rifle, I consider it a stronger, safer, and simpler action than the M1903.
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Old January 17, 2014, 11:12 PM   #10
Romeo 33 Delta
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I own and shoot the following Carcanos:

M-1891 Infantry Rifle 6.5 X 52
M-1938 Short Rifle 6.5 X 52, 7.35 X 51
M-1891/38 TS Carbine 6.5 X 52, 7.35 X 51 and 7.92 X 57JS
M-1891/38 Moschetto 6.5 X 52, 7.35 X 51
M-1941 Infantry Rifle 6.5 X 52 (probably what you have?)

They are excellent shooters and not difficult to reload for. If they can pass a "safety check" by a qualified gun smith, I would have ABSOLUTELY NO RESERVATIONS in shooting them!

I agree with the opinions that Carcanos and Arisakas got a bad rap because they were "old-timey" looking and foreign too boot! The Carcano has had the added rap that French rifles get ... you know the "only dropped once" drivel and "are not accurate". Well, when you push a .264" bullet down the barrel that has a .2675" groove diameter ... OF COURSE it won't be accurate. Then too, the M-1891 Infantry rifle shortened to the M-1891/28 Carbine had the faster part of the gain twist rifling cut away ... again, OF COURSE accuracy is diminished!

In short, Italian, French, Japanese rifles are great shooters with the right bullets and you are participating in history! In my case, the Carcano got me into MilSurp collecting and reloading. My Dad sent back 2 never issued M-1891/38 TS Carbines in 6.5. He kept one and gave the other to his brother. I have them both, with issue slings and bayonets with smooth steel scabbards.

There are some "tricks" to shooting them. The right bullet is one. Some of my 6.5s shoot well with a .264", a couple need that .268". In both instances I use the Hornady 160gr RNSP ... flat base and long parallel sides (just what a carcano wants to see). The correct powder and primers are also important. Just google "reloading the 6.5 Carcano" or "reloading the 7.35 Carcano" ... lots of information out there. Also, the Italians use a slightly different sight picture then we do. Instead of the "pumpkin on the post" that we're taught, they bury the front sight blade into the bottom of the rear sight notch. If you do that and aim at the "waist" on a man-shaped target at 100-200 meters ... you'll hit mid-chest.

YOU MUST USE CLIPS!!! DO NOT drop a round in the chamber and slam the both home. You are likely to bend or break the extractor. If you don't have clips, do not worry. The Carcano has the easiest to remove bolt of any rifle I own. Just pull it to the rear, pull the trigger and pull it out of the receiver. To reinsert, start the bolt into the receiver, when it stops, pull the trigger and run it closed. I had a M-1891 that would NOT feed from a clip no matter what I tried, but it was a hell of a shooter for a rifle built in the 1890s. Until I replaced the bolt, I'd shoot it by removing the bolt, hooking a cartridge onto the bolt under the extractor and reinserting it. Slow fire, yes. The up side was that 50 rounds lasted longer and the rifle stayed cooler longer ... for more rounds without mirage from a hot barrel.

Hey ... just get ready for this coming shooting season and take her to the range!
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Old January 18, 2014, 12:54 AM   #11
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I'd like to get a type I arisaka smeday. I don't understand how the Italians could improve the Carcano for export but didn't do it for their own troops. It would have been a much better use of their resources than the change to 7.35.
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Old January 23, 2014, 05:22 PM   #12
goodolsavage
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About a post earlier yes i have a 91/41 an unmarked one at that. I have a few questions? Does the bolt have a stuff cocking? And is your trigger actually half way decent for a war rifle? Myn feels almost like a 2 stage trigger and its very predictable.
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Old January 23, 2014, 05:31 PM   #13
Dragline45
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I bought a Carcano last year for $60 with 2 clips, the original cleaning rod, and 20rds of original ammunition. I never fired it because the case necks on the brass were starting to crack and were brittle, so I ended up selling it for $200. While the gun did seem pretty solid, the fit and finish were pretty rough. Even after a good cleaning, cycling the bolt was anything but smooth. I will say that it had a pretty decent trigger on it.

Quote:
I am not as enamored with the Carcano as you, but is light, handy, accurate, and pleasant to shoot.
I wouldn't call it light, that sucker was heavy. I did have the full size infantry model though. They had shorter cavalry models, similar to what Oswald used, that I assumed would be a good deal lighter.
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Old January 23, 2014, 07:03 PM   #14
goodolsavage
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You picked up ammo and all that cheap?????? Wow! I paid $40 alone for a box of ammo . And old surplus is kind of hard to come by(for being surplus that is) do you know if it was octagonal reciever or still round?
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Old January 23, 2014, 09:05 PM   #15
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I bought my Carcano on a whim last summer. I bought it in 7.35 as the seller had ammo for it, so I bought some ammo then too. I wish I knew what I was getting into at that time. I would have bought the 6.5(?) version that he had several of, as it seems that ammo for it is much easy to get. Either way, I have shot it a bit and must say, it does shoot very well for what it is. Indeed, it is also very light and handy, albeit, small. I have no clue what model it is, but it is obviously a carbine. Also, how little where these Italians!?!?! The stock must be under a soot in length. It's like they made a youth-model! lol
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Old January 23, 2014, 10:37 PM   #16
Dragline45
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It was a round receiver, here is a thread I posted when I got it with a couple pictures.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=514874

I got it from a friends grandparents who were selling their house to downsize and just wanted to get rid of the thing. I am not really a collector and since I cannot order ammunition online to Massachusetts I ended up just getting rid of it. I do wish I could have shot it first, but I got a hell of a deal and made a nice little profit so I don't feel too bad.
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Old January 24, 2014, 11:25 AM   #17
goodolsavage
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Thats simat to myn. Except in i think in 43 after Italy surrenderd they stop marking them up until 1945 and that happens to be what I have. It doesn't even have an import stamp or anything? Just the itialian crown. Though i with you could have shot it a few times because that damned screw that holds the buttplate on sucks. They used a round screw so it sticks out( i thought it was aftermarket but all the ones i seen had it also)
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Old January 24, 2014, 11:27 AM   #18
goodolsavage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean46953 View Post
I bought my Carcano on a whim last summer. I bought it in 7.35 as the seller had ammo for it, so I bought some ammo then too. I wish I knew what I was getting into at that time. I would have bought the 6.5(?) version that he had several of, as it seems that ammo for it is much easy to get. Either way, I have shot it a bit and must say, it does shoot very well for what it is. Indeed, it is also very light and handy, albeit, small. I have no clue what model it is, but it is obviously a carbine. Also, how little where these Italians!?!?! The stock must be under a soot in length. It's like they made a youth-model! lol

My has a full size stock? You might have a Calvery model because i think(not sure) they cut the stocks on those to be easier to use
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Old January 24, 2014, 12:53 PM   #19
Romeo 33 Delta
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The Type 1 may not really be an "improvement" to the clip fed Carcano. From the Italian point of view, it would only hold 5 rounds, not 6 and would not be any faster to load from a stripper clip than using an enbloc clip.

I'll grant you that I like my Type 1, but you have to see this from their viewpoint, not ours. Remember, our Garand with an 8 round enbloc clip was certainly better than good enough in one World War and the other one which followed, Korea.
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Old January 24, 2014, 01:30 PM   #20
AssaultTortoise
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carcanos are weird

I collect WW2 military rifles and have both a 6.5 and 7.35 carcano. They fire a bullet just as well as any other gun but I just cant seem to get over how awkward they are at least to me. They are both very small with short LOP stocks and crude sights. The whole drop out charging clip just doesn't sit right with me. I keep them as part of the collection but as far as im concerned they rank far below any of the other WW1-WW2 bolt guns. Mosins can also be crude but I believe their design and function is better. If I had to fight in WW2 the carcano would be the last bolt gun I would want to use.
AIM surplus sometimes has New PP 6.5 carcano ammo in stock it shoots well through my 6.5.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/catalog.as...me=6.5+Carcano
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Old January 24, 2014, 01:48 PM   #21
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My biggest problem with mannlicher/enbloc clips is that they are needed in order to fire the gun, and they prevent topping off the ammo. I would guess that they also add to the weight of the gun, but that's just a guess and it would likely only be a few ounces.

I think the clip was the biggest fault with the garand too. If it had been designed with a 10 rd version of the BAR mag the entire M14 fiasco could have been avoided. The Italians did practically the same thing with the BM59, I can't believe that Pederson and Garand couldn't have done it in the 30s.
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Old January 24, 2014, 11:59 PM   #22
James K
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"I don't understand how the Italians could improve the Carcano for export but didn't do it for their own troops."

Huh? The Carcano was never exported; it was made only for issue to the Italian armed forces. The ones sold here after WWII were those same guns and not changed or improved in any way.

Much of the nonsense about the Carcano being bad is the result of lies by the JFK conspiracy theorists and their enablers. If someone wants to "prove" that Oswald didn't do "it", a claim that his rifle couldn't have done "it" proves his point. The story told by JohnMoses is a case in point. By giving the TV producer what he wanted, Emary supported a nonsensical lie.

Jim
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Old January 25, 2014, 12:21 PM   #23
jimmy lowboy
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Does this mean that my Japanese type I (cut down by bubba) is officially not a carcano variation?
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Old January 25, 2014, 04:27 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James K
Huh? The Carcano was never exported; it was made only for issue to the Italian armed forces. The ones sold here after WWII were those same guns and not changed or improved in any way.
Carcanos were sold to the Japanese navy (Arisaka I) prior to WWII, the British Navy(WWI era), and the Finns (in 7.35).

Like I said, I don't know much about the British Carcanos except that the Brits bought them out of desperation during a severe arms shortage. I imagine they were standard 6.5x51 models.

The Jap Carcanos were in 6.5 Arisaka and used a mauser type magazine instead of the Mannlicher clip type, and I think it is a definite improvement. I also think the 7.35 caliber change is an improvement, and although Italy exported virtually all of them to Finland, they only did that because of the logistics issues
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Old January 25, 2014, 05:40 PM   #25
goodolsavage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AssaultTortoise View Post
I collect WW2 military rifles and have both a 6.5 and 7.35 carcano. They fire a bullet just as well as any other gun but I just cant seem to get over how awkward they are at least to me. They are both very small with short LOP stocks and crude sights. The whole drop out charging clip just doesn't sit right with me. I keep them as part of the collection but as far as im concerned they rank far below any of the other WW1-WW2 bolt guns. Mosins can also be crude but I believe their design and function is better. If I had to fight in WW2 the carcano would be the last bolt gun I would want to use.

AIM surplus sometimes has New PP 6.5 carcano ammo in stock it shoots well through my 6.5.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/catalog.as...me=6.5+Carcano
I also wouldn't want to use it in war only because of the mag/clip.. I found them to be extremely unreliable if they get bent just a little i have a clip that first shot jams everytime and others that doesn't fall out. And a few that keeps the shell in it to good and when you try and put one in the chamber the clip doesnt release and it pushes the entire clip foward and tilts it forward. Besides that though i wouldnt mind it.. I found it to be a better size than a 91/30 mosin.. Mosin stocks seem too short and not tall enough to fit well(im 6'1 btw) and the length of pull is a hair short of the carcano but its tolerable(i have the very last model that was produced) that being said though im sure it was a better fit for Italians in 1891-1945. I'd rather go into battle with a 1903 than any other boltgun of that era though.
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