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Old December 31, 2013, 02:28 AM   #26
DannyB1954
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This article argues against using long bullets, (like 180gn), in a 40 S&W it shows a 165gn can have more energy

http://www.greent.com/40Page/ammo/40/180gr.htm

Another option to gain more penetration is to check to see if your gun can be converted to 357Sig I know it is an easy conversion for Glocks.
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Old December 31, 2013, 05:46 AM   #27
kcub
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There's a difference between hunting grizzlies vs. having a handgun for defense against grizzlies.

For hunting grizzlies with a handgun I would use my Freedom Arms .454 Casull.

For protection my first choice would be .45 Super followed by 10mm followed by .40. I want something I can shoot fast and well with a flat nosed bullet capable of penetrating the skull and brain.
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Old December 31, 2013, 04:24 PM   #28
JD0x0
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Quote:
This article argues against using long bullets, (like 180gn), in a 40 S&W it shows a 165gn can have more energy
Energy isn't everything.
You can kill an elephant with a 630 grain .458 bullet @ 1000fps generating 1399ft-lbs of muzzle energy, if you hit it in the skull. But a .223 rem making 1400ft-lbs with a 50 grain V-max, likely, wont even get close to a kill, with the same shot placement.
IMO, having adequate penetration is more important than having marginally more energy 'dumped' into the target. More energy doesn't mean more penetration necessarily.
If I was intending to protect myself against bears or other large creatures in the woods, with a .40 cal, I would much prefer a 200 grain solid at .40S&W velocities (I am seeing measurements up to 1050fps with a 4'' barrel, so lets say 950-1050fps that's about 490ft-lbs), over a 165 grain even if you could get it to 10mm Auto velocities.

Just my $.02
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Old January 12, 2014, 11:46 AM   #29
bonglee0507
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I use 200gr teflon coated bullets for ipsc competition. Very nice
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Old January 13, 2014, 03:22 PM   #30
RickB
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Quote:
jmr40,

13 200 grain .40 S&W rounds at 1100 FPS would be just the ticket.

What is the .40 S&W hand load that would give me 1100 FPS with 200 grain bullets?

Thanks & Happy New Year
Out of a barrel shorter than 5", I'd say you will never get there. Even out of 5", most 10mm load data isn't much over 1100fps with 200gr bullets.
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Old January 13, 2014, 03:50 PM   #31
JD0x0
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Quote:
Out of a barrel shorter than 5", I'd say you will never get there. Even out of 5", most 10mm load data isn't much over 1100fps with 200gr bullets.
I'm not so sure about that. I found 10mm Auto data with several loads around 1200fps with a 200 grain bullet.
And while you have to be very careful with 200's in .40S&W it seems that 1000+fps is achievable even in a 3.58'' barrel.

I found an old post on TFL with some data.
Quote:
have been extremely impressed with VihtaVuori N105 and 200gr bullets.

Here are the loads from the VV web site.

200 TMJ Speer - - - OAL 1.134” - - - N105 - - - 7.4gr = 1032 - - - 7.9gr = 1116fps

I found that at max the case has just enough room to seat the bullet and I had no setback problems. Muzzle flip was stout but manageable. I have not had enough time to play with the loading (charge vs OAL vs bullet-brand) for accuracy. If I can get less than 2” groups at 25 yards (bench rest) I will strongly consider this as a carry load.

Currently, using a 3.58 inch barrel..
Couldn't find any barrel length info for this data.
Quote:
200gr TMJ 5.9 gr VV N350 974 fps 1.126" Vihtavuori
Suggested starting load: 5.3 gr


200gr TMJ 7.9 gr VV N105 1,116 fps 1.134" Vihtavuori
Suggested starting load: 7.1 gr
So it is plausible, you just need to be very careful about your loading with a 200 grain, and it's advisable that you use top quality, strong brass.

Last edited by JD0x0; January 13, 2014 at 03:55 PM.
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Old January 13, 2014, 04:24 PM   #32
WESHOOT2
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For BLACK bear the 40 S&W, loaded properly, can suffice.

Vihtavuori powders that can deliver in excess of 1,000fps include 3N37, N350, and (apparently; this one I've never used or tested) N105.

I use an OAL of 1.130"+/-.005" with the Hornady 200g FMJ-FP.
I use new sized cases ONLY.
I use the CCI500.
I use a few different powders to include the two Vihta choices.
I launch them from a small-metal-framed standard-length (4.5") EAA Witness.
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Old January 13, 2014, 10:55 PM   #33
tipoc
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Buffalo Bore offers the following in their 40S&W Outdoorsman load.

Quote:
1033 fps -- Custom 1911 with Nowlin barrel, 5 inch
989 fps -- Browning Hi Power, 4.6 inch barrel
967 fps -- Taurus PT 100, 4.6 inch barrel
962 fps -- Glock model 23, Gen. 2, 4 inch barrel
969 fps -- Glock model 23, Gen. 4, 4 inch barrel
961 fps -- Sig model 229, 4 inch barrel
976 fps -- Kahr model PM40, 3 inch barrel
But given what it offers for the 10mm I don't really see the point of this load for the 40S&W. I also don't get the use of it over a 180 gr. load 100 fps faster. Unless you have no other choice in a heavy load.

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Old January 15, 2014, 09:00 AM   #34
Ruger45LC
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VV 3N38 does pretty well with 200gr in .40 S&W too, from my G23 it averaged just short of 1,100 fps and almost 1,200 fps through a G35.

800x with 200gr is moving over 1,150 from G23 and nearly 1,250 from 6" G24 barrel (and will do a little shy of 1,100 fps from my 3" Kahr CM40!). Not exactly full blown 10mm, but close enough that no game animal will know the difference.
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Old January 15, 2014, 03:00 PM   #35
sig1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruger45LC View Post
VV 3N38 does pretty well with 200gr in .40 S&W too, from my G23 it averaged just short of 1,100 fps and almost 1,200 fps through a G35.

800x with 200gr is moving over 1,150 from G23 and nearly 1,250 from 6" G24 barrel (and will do a little shy of 1,100 fps from my 3" Kahr CM40!). Not exactly full blown 10mm, but close enough that no game animal will know the difference.
Impressive! Are these normal pressures? What can you get with a 180 gr out of a g23?
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Old January 15, 2014, 07:12 PM   #36
RickB
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Not exactly full blown 10mm

Actually, that is very much full-blown 10mm velocity. . . and using a faster powder in a smaller case. I can't get enough of some powders into a 10mm case to reach those velocities.
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