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Old November 21, 2013, 02:57 PM   #1
ammo.crafter
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ouch...recoil

After multiple shoulder surgeries I had restricted myself to a Remington G-3 (1100) 20ga. Fits me great and is a fine shooter for pheasants.
But I miss a 12ga. Any one have a suggestion for a soft recoil 12ga semi auto?
Thanks.
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Old November 21, 2013, 03:05 PM   #2
BigJimP
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The softest recoiling semi-autos will be gas operated guns ...vs inertia operated guns....

Weight of the gun also reduces recoil...so either add weight ( without screwing up the balance point of a current gun ) - or go to a heavier gun ( typically the older generation guns are heavier - like the Rem 1100's )....

The other way to reduce recoil ...is to shoot less shot in a shell ( so in a 12ga ...go to a 1 oz shell, or even 7/8 oz ( but if you go to 7/8 oz, balistically, its the same as a 20ga )....but the good news is today you can shoot a shell in a 12ga - that makes it act like a 16ga, or 20ga ...or even a 28ga ...and with really light recoil. ---- or shoot a shell with less velocity ( stay away from the 1300 fps shells...and drop down to 1200 fps ...or even 1150 fps )....

Depending on what you're doing with the gun ..there may be no disadvantage to shooting a 20ga ......a pellet from a 12ga leaving the gun at 1200 fps.....vs a ..20ga pellet...leaving the gun at 1200 fps ...hits with exactly the same force...( so there is no disadvantage to shooting a 20ga )....

and personally, while I shoot a lot of 1 oz shells in a 12ga, more and more I'm shooting 7/8 oz or even 3/4 oz shells....
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Old November 21, 2013, 03:16 PM   #3
ammo.crafter
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thx

Thanks. Have any particular make or model 12ga to suggest?
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Old November 21, 2013, 03:19 PM   #4
Chaz88
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Quote:
The softest recoiling semi-autos will be gas operated guns ...vs inertia operated guns....
In general I would agree but my experience has been a bit different. I have a heavy gas operated Beretta that punishes me all day long and a light inertia operated Benelli Super Sport that I can shoot all day without it bothering me.

The Benelli has a recoil system that sounds magical from the manufactures description. When I got it I thought it was probably more hype than anything but have been very impressed with it and now only bring the Beretta out to loan to other people.

I have not had a shoulder replaced but will probably have to have both done eventually and I try hard to find shotguns that will keep the pain level tolerable tell I do.

I also shoot a lot of trap and like heavy trap guns for that. I use the Benelli for doubles and skeet sometimes but heavy single barreled trap guns are my preference for singles trap.
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Old November 21, 2013, 03:35 PM   #5
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Recoil can sometimes be a function of "Fit" ...because a gun shouldn't beat you up -- even if you're shooting 8 - 10 boxes a day ( 200 - 250 shells )....

I've had major shoulder rebuild surgery on my shooting shoulder...so I understand the issue..../ my bicep is only half the length of normal ( cut it - and pinned it mid bone in my arm( it was torn bad) --- rotator cuff rebuilt / lots of bone spurs removed ) --- "paying for the sins and stupidity of my youth " .... ...although I wouldn't change anything either...

If I wanted a gas gun --- I'd go with one of the Beretta's ... maybe this model ...

http://www.berettausa.com/products/a...rget-kick-off/
----------------
I do shoot one of the Benelli Super Sport models ....and it would be a good pheasant gun as well....I have the 12ga in a 30" ...and the 20ga in a 28" ....the 12ga is only 7 lbs ...and the 20ga is only 6 lbs..../ but what I do, is add about 8 oz of lead golf club tape under the forend ...and 8 oz of golf tape in the stock ...increasing weight on the 12ga to right around 8 lbs.../ extra weight give me less recoil / the adj comb gel pads make it almost a parallel comb gun / and weight helps on my follow thru .....

On days when my arm is really bad ( cold, wet, damp days - it hurts ) I drop down to a 28ga Over Under ....or shoot 3/4 oz loads in one of my 12ga's...as long as you keep them at 1200 fps, they will cycle my Benelli 12ga Super Sport...and I can shoot them in any of my 12ga O/U's ....

but with a bad shoulder...I have to watch the gross weight of the gun too ...sometimes it wears on the shoulder, to shoot a real heavy gun...so its kind of a day to day thing....( pick a gun with enough weight to give me light recoil, the right shell for how I feel that day )...and some advil...

Talk to shooters at your local skeet and sporting clays clubs ( Trap guys are different ) ....but talk to them about semi-autos .../ maybe they'll let you put a few shells thru some of their guns ( I never met a Skeet shooter or a sporting clays shooter -- serious shooters / that don't have at least 8 or 10 guns at home ..) ...while we often shoot the same gun, I'd bring the Benelli out and let someone test it a little before they paid $ 2,000 for one...and you'll see a lot of Beretta semi-autos ...and a few Benelli's on the sporting clays or 5 stand courses..../ O/U's still dominate...( mostly because clay target shooters hate to pick up their hulls )...

On good days - my upland bird field gun is a Browning Citori, XS Skeet model, 12ga, 30" barrels ..( O/U )...and its a little over 8 lbs... / if I just can't mount that gun all day long ....I go to the Benelli Super Sport..in either 12ga or 20g...and on really bad days, I shoot a Citori XS skeet, same 30" barrels in a 28ga...its about a 7.5 lb gun...

Last edited by BigJimP; November 21, 2013 at 03:44 PM.
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Old November 21, 2013, 03:57 PM   #6
Chaz88
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Quote:
Recoil can sometimes be a function of "Fit" ...because a gun shouldn't beat you up -- even if you're shooting 8 - 10 boxes a day ( 200 - 250 shells )....
I agree fit is part of the equation. I probably exaggerated the all day punishment a little. But when I shot this gun for tournaments, before I had more and better options, by the end of the day it felt like it was an all day beating. Not the case with the Benelli hunting or with clays and it is a lot nicer to carry hunting all day.
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Old November 21, 2013, 04:31 PM   #7
gyvel
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A very effective and simple solution is to buy a Past recoil shield. Check out their website.

Other than that, as other posters have stated, a gas operated shotgun is going to have somewhat milder perceived recoil.
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Old November 21, 2013, 04:46 PM   #8
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There are two different recoils that contribute to pain and suffering - actual recoil and perceived recoil (aka KICK).

Actual recoil is simple math equation - shoot the heaviest gun with the lightest and slowest payload and you will achieve the lightest possible recoil. I shoot a 12 gauge 3/4 oz reload that runs 1210 fps (verified by a chrono) in a gas gun that weighs over 8# - I can shoot it all day long with no pain or suffering.

The second type - perceived - is trickier as this is an individual perception. One gun may be easy for one person to shoot and a real pain for someone else - that is where fit comes in, and fit is more than the LOP of the stock - it is also the thickness of the stock and comb, the drop at heel, drop at comb, cast on or off, toe in or out, pitch of the stock, etc.

My friend, BigJim, like parallel target stocks because for HIM at his size and build, they fit him properly. I do not. This is where a fitting session with a true stock fitter is worth the money as you are truly needing a proper fitting for a very good reason - pain mitigation. I have arthritis in my off shoulder and torn cartilage in my shooting shoulder, so those 3/4oz reloads in my gas gun really allow me to enjoy shooting - and I shoot about 15,000 targets a year (the 3/4 oz reloads also let me get 533 from a bag of VERY expensive shot, another bonus)

Last edited by BigD_in_FL; November 21, 2013 at 07:06 PM. Reason: spelling - as USUAL....
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Old November 21, 2013, 05:10 PM   #9
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" at hos size ".....come on now, at 6'5" and 295 lbs or so ( but I'm not weighing myself until after new years )...

...I'm just a small buffalo... / you're going to hurt my feelings...
----------
and yes, I like a parallel comb gun ...and I think a parallel comb gun is a gun that will fit 99.9% of the shooters out there ( not just Buffalo's )...
----------
but I suggest the OP take a good look at my comments on gross weight of the gun ...and it depends on how his shoulder is ....but on bad days, even as a buffalo....I just can't mount an 8 1/2 lb or a 10 lb O/U all day long...in a tournament.....let alone 4 days in a row....

so he has to find that compromise point for himself.../ and Fit....
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Old November 21, 2013, 06:52 PM   #10
ammo.crafter
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THX

Thanks for all the info.

Had the shoulder and the bicep tendon done as well.

Even got rid of the big booming rifles and went with a 7x30 Waters.

Anyway, I'll be doing lots of research and trying guns of the other shooters as well.
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Old November 21, 2013, 07:28 PM   #11
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As BigJimP stated try the 1100 in 12 ga with reduced recoil loads.
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Old November 22, 2013, 09:24 AM   #12
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I haven't had shoulder surgery, but I have to be very careful with recoil as I take blood thinners and the doctors want me at the higher end of the INR readings because I have a mechanical heart valve.

They do not want me shooting heavy recoiling guns because of the possibility of causing a brain hemorrhage, so I have to be extremely careful with what I shoot.

I have several different shotguns - pump, auto, and an over/under. The auto is an FN SLP that I have sent to SRM Performance for installation of their SureCycle system. That helped with improving the cycling time (made it faster) with the side benefit that it reduced the felt recoil by about 15%. I also installed a Kick Eez recoil pad. It is a very soft shooting gun - even with something like buckshot.

However, the Beretta O/U with the Beretta KickOff system using B&P Shotgun Shells
is, by far, the softest recoiling shotgun I use. I would equate the recoil to about a .243 rifle.

The B&P shells help because they use the "Gordon System" wads that progressively collapse to help lengthen the recoil impulse time - making felt recoil less as it is extended over a slightly longer time. The shells can be purchased from Cabelas at a reduced price from that on the B&P website.

If you want the absolutely lowest recoiling shotgun, I would look at either a Winchester SX3, Beretta A400, or Browning Maxus semi-automatic. The Beretta with the KickOff system will be the lowest recoiling of the three - but stock fit is far more important as you can have a Gracoil (or other) recoil system installed on any of the other shotguns.

The stock dimensions comb drop, etc. are going to make it fit better and that really helps in reducing felt recoil - so your gun choice should be based upon fit - not manufacturer's name. If you choose a gun other than the Beretta with the KickOff, I would have a recoil system installed.

I would then send the gun to SRM Performance and have them install a SureCycle system for a bit more recoil reduction. Lastly I would shoot the B&P shells as, believe it or not, they really do help soften the recoil by a small amount.

If you do all of those things - you'll have an extremely low recoil shotgun that you should be able to shoot easily and without pain or fear of re-injury.
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Old November 22, 2013, 09:30 AM   #13
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Buckhorn, you might want to look into a Remington 1100 in 410 - nothing is as soft as that. If you want to stay with a bigger bore, then a Beretta 303 with about 1-1/2# of mercury recoil devices in the stock and forearm will be about the next best thing
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Old November 22, 2013, 10:03 AM   #14
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Have you ever looked into porting the shotgun to reduce recoil? It does help both with recoil and muzzle rise. I think this would fit your needs.
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Old November 22, 2013, 10:22 AM   #15
Chaz88
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Not sure what kinds of shooting you do the most. I have heard great things from people that shoot the recoilless trap guns. I have not shot one myself but want to. It might be the ticket for me but I want to try one before I break out that much cash.
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Old November 22, 2013, 11:19 AM   #16
BigD_in_FL
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Quote:
Have you ever looked into porting the shotgun to reduce recoil? It does help both with recoil
No it does not, the recoil pulse has already happened before the payload reaches the ports; shotgun pressure are too low in that regard (same for muzzle rise with soft target loads
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Old November 22, 2013, 12:01 PM   #17
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All of my target shotguns...in 12ga and 20ga...are all ported...and I do like them / because it reduces muzzle jump between 1st and 2nd shot....but I agree it does very little, if anything, to reduce recoil.

There are other options....JS Air Cushion stocks, GraCoil stocks, etc...
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Old November 22, 2013, 05:13 PM   #18
Slate Mike
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I would try your 1100 with a Jack West Auto Bump stock. You can buy just the stock with its recoil reducer, adj. pad and comb for about $400. or you can buy the complete gun. It's the 1100 Competition Synthetic. Can't think of anything softer shooting, especially with a light load. Mike
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