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Old November 2, 2013, 01:40 AM   #1
RX-79G
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Which combat pistols does everyone agree have no issues?

It often seems like there is a lot of argument about whether certain brands or models are problem guns or not. But some guns seem to almost never get that sort of criticism. All brands are susceptible to an occasional failure or lemon, but which ones have you never really heard of a bad quality trend?

To be clear, I'm just talking about quality - gun works as designed and doesn't tend to break, jam or shed parts while firing. Not whether you like the gun, features, etc.

Off the top of my head, with no particular bias:
The original stamped slide Sigs. P210.
Metal framed Ruger P series.
Wilson, Les Baer.
3 and 4 digit S&W metal framed autos.
Beretta/Stoeger Cougar.
FN.
HK.
9mm and 10mm Glocks.
CZs.
Arcus HPs.


I hope this doesn't devolve into a debate about why Taurus, Kimber or Colt are being unfairly maligned. I just thought it would be fun to build a list of universal winners in the quality department. Please nominate to the list or mention your reason you think a model shouldn't make it. (EG; Beretta 92 locking block failures, M&P trigger failures, kaBooms, etc.)

Just keep in mind that some things, like Glock .40 kBs are hotly contested, but since 9mms Glocks aren't, that might qualify them for the list. We're looking for the guns no one even argues about there being a problem or not.

It is possible that there will be nothing left on this list when we're through, but I've honestly never heard anyone raise an issue with a Cougar, for instance.

Fair 'nuff? Let's hear about 'em!
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Old November 2, 2013, 02:23 AM   #2
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There will not be anything that everyone agrees with. This could turn into a giant ******* contest.

However you gave your opinion based on what you are "hearing". Others will do the same or maybe even their personal experiences. Most likely it will turn into another popularity contest as posts like this typically do - I feel these should be on the list because I own them, which is only natural.

I have read about or heard about problems with pretty much everything you have listed. I would not even kow where to start so I won't.

Good luck.
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Old November 2, 2013, 02:39 AM   #3
RX-79G
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It really doesn't have to be a big debate. If no one can post even a couple internet threads about a particular problem, then there isn't a trend.


My little list was just off the top of my head - I'm sure much of it will be shot down. But I do think some models will make it through with so little to no posted evidence of QC problems. And even if you have to read the whole thread to see which guns those are, it will still be very useful information.

So please do shoot down the anything and everything! Just try to post a few links if the problems aren't widely known.
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Old November 2, 2013, 03:00 AM   #4
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RX, I do believe someone, somewhere, will have had a problem with any and all manufacturer's guns. Guns that I have personally owned during the last ~40 years that have had one or more problems that were significant enough for me, a gunsmith, or the manufacturer to address, have been S&W, Colt, Ruger, Springfield, CZ, Wilson, Les Baer, Rock River, and yes, even a SIG P210. i suspect issues with the P210 would be very rare, but of the four I owned, one did have to actually go back for replacement of the en bloc trigger mechanism...ymmv
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Old November 2, 2013, 03:13 AM   #5
RX-79G
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Hey Rock,

I agree completely. The key to this is the word trend. Sig P210s do not have a trigger block failure trend that would be easy to demonstrate by posting a few threads with people complaining about them.

Over the years I've sent a few pistols in for warranty stuff, but I was unable in all cases to find evidence on the net of a "problem" with any of them.

I'd contrast that with the "front sight falling off problem" or the "locking block problem" that some models seem to have a reputation for.

In your case, I'd encourage you to remember what went wrong with those guns, do a quick google and post anything you find that sounds like it happened more than twice.

Think of this as a statistical exercise attempting to disprove any and all pistols of being largely problem free.
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Old November 2, 2013, 03:32 AM   #6
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meh with enough time anyone can make the 'facts' work in their favor. I'm sure with enough digging you could find plenty of issues with all those guns.

Also when a gun works perfectly fine day in and day out, often times you'll never hear one word of praise for it.

But if it stovepipes once on a sunny day at the range after 2,000 rounds of ammo... CAN I TRUST MY LIFE TO THIS GUN?!

Heaven forbid something actually breaks on it. I've seen so many perfectly good firearms traded in after a common part finally gave way. Just can't trust it. Or some nonsense.

Everything man made is imperfect and prone to breakage, I feel its not so much the gun itself that defines a 'good' gun but perhaps the company behind it. Who make sure their customer is taken care of. Uses a bit more costly materials on important parts, and if they totally make a lemon or drop the ball aren't afraid of admitting it and making it up to you. Do companies need to do these things? No. But if feel that's what separates the goods from the greats.
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Old November 2, 2013, 04:00 AM   #7
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I have heard James Yeager suggest that CZ 75s are prone to "break," but never found any other reports of major failues.

yes, I watch Yeager videos, don't judge me.
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Old November 2, 2013, 04:39 AM   #8
RX-79G
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Venom,

Don't really understand your post. This isn't trying to prove something is perfect - it is more like trying to prove a negative. And if everyone fails to prove that negative, that's interesting.

If the sum of all failure reports on Ruger P89s doesn't point to any particular common problem, that shows that the P89 doesn't have any particular problems. That doesn't mean the gun is perfect, just that there isn't any one thing that's consistently fails to work.

I'm surprised everyone hates this idea. It could be interesting, and there really isn't anything contentious about failing to find fault with something. It won't transform a boring, clunky gun into something it isn't.
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Old November 2, 2013, 05:50 AM   #9
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Agree with you on p series ruger, they have been great for me I trust my life to my fnx every single day
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Old November 2, 2013, 07:46 AM   #10
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You have already made the mistake of listing other brands besides glocks....that'll draw out all the "there's only One" fans to list what's wrong with each of your other picks.

If someone hasn't already chimed in the first they'll knock off is the P's series, with some sob story about how the trigger fell off while they were just walking along.

Then the S&W haters will show up crying that they'd never buy Smith Semi's because they put internal locks in Revolvers.

HK's will last the longest because fewer people invest in great quality...The custom 1911's are going down Third. Sig may out last HK, it just depends on what types migrate to this thead.

So fourth and so on for about 153 posts...All brands are junk except those I choose to own. See how simple was that.
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Old November 2, 2013, 07:57 AM   #11
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"9 and 10mm Glocks"is getting to be a cliche, a cut deeper the model 21 in .45acp is an awesome combat pistol, too. Sigs are awesome if you shoot double action well. H&K's shootability is variable and operator sensitive. A 1911 is a rose by any other name, still one of my favorites. Browning Hi Power ought to be somewhere in there. The Beretta 92 I have hasn't given me any grief. I expect any gun with 10K rounds and all abused to have issues, but mine haven't and don't.
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Old November 2, 2013, 08:01 AM   #12
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I don't like the term "combat pistol," it's just a BS marketing term to sell black guns with night sights, tacticool rails, extended mags and grabby grips at a premium to mall ninjas.
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Old November 2, 2013, 08:30 AM   #13
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Which combat pistols does everyone agree have no issues?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedudeabides View Post
I don't like the term "combat pistol," it's just a BS marketing term to sell black guns with night sights, tacticool rails, extended mags and grabby grips at a premium to mall ninjas.
Exactly! There's no reason you can't go into combat with a Taurus PT-22, a Phoenix HP25A, or a Desert Eagle in your drop leg holster! All pistols are made for combat!


/crickets
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Old November 2, 2013, 09:22 AM   #14
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Which combat pistols does everyone agree have no issues?

Okay. I read here much more than I post, and in all my reading I can't remember any significant complaints about FN pistols. I've had my FNP-40 since 2008 and have shot at least a few thousand rounds through it and cannot recall even one malfunction regardless of what I fed it, both my reloads as well as factory. For me, at least, it's established a reliable reputation, and I don't recall reading of others who report problems with theirs. So there's my $.02.

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Old November 2, 2013, 09:23 AM   #15
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Which combat pistols does everyone agree have no issues?

Oh, and let me caveat my last post by stating that there's still a whole lot of reputable quality pistols that I've yet to try :-)
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Old November 2, 2013, 09:39 AM   #16
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No such creature, I think.....

....maybe the Colt Single-Action Army....not a lot of negative posts about it by soldiers back when it was in service....

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Old November 2, 2013, 10:31 AM   #17
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It's not a 'combat pistol', and I've never owned one, but one model that has impressed me by the absence of negative criticism for functionality is the 9mm Hi-Point.
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Old November 2, 2013, 10:40 AM   #18
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MY "list"

CZ75 and clones
Glock
Ruger P-series
S&W M&P
S&W 39XX-series
1911

And the pinnacle, the S&W 4" M10 revolver.
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Old November 2, 2013, 10:47 AM   #19
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Early on, a few FNP40s had an issue with the trigger housing cracking in front of the hammer. There was a slight change made which either added or left more material in the problem area and I have not heard of revised pistols having troubles. Actually, I generally read very good reviews.
I have 2 FNP40s, close to 3000 rounds through one, 300-500 through the other and both have been flawless except for failure to feed on American Eagle 165grain FMJ. Maybe 10 FTF between the two guns in 1000 rounds. No issues with any other ammo.
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Old November 2, 2013, 10:48 AM   #20
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Quote:
Don't really understand your post.
No worries. It was mainly my feelings on the matter. No one understands me!

Simply put, I would say most modern service pistols are all perfectly capable of meeting or exceeding the goals of its intended purpose. As long as it is a quality manufacturer.

But there will always be issues with any model of gun, if you look long enough or hard enough I'm sure you'll find them.

The amount of guns in circulation and how much they are used also would effect how many issues they would have. More guns and more usage = more chance of issue.

Take glocks solid tough as nails, rugged and reliable. There is a HUGE amount of glocks in circulation and most of them fit that description. But there are some that just sneak by QC and flat out suck. It will eventually, and when it does the whole internet will hear about it. That to your criteria would be a mark against it. You'd have to average the issues to the total production to get the % failure rate of that gun model.

M712 Schnellfeuer is a pistol I hardly hear any owners complain about. So clearly that would make it superior to just about every modern pistol since most of them have had a recall of some sort lately. Or is it because there are so few in comparison to glocks that are subjected to the daily hazards of carry and use that a glock might be?

I guess I'm saying there are so many proven service pistols out there nowadays that have seen combat done the trials had their teething problems that I would be comfortable with any of them especially after some quality range time with it to familiarize and make sure its working correctly.

Your title says
Quote:
everyone agree
This will never happen. For every yes there will be a no.
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Old November 2, 2013, 10:49 AM   #21
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So you say it doesn't matter if people have some gripes, as long as people can't point to a trend. But you go on to list the worst source for looking for trends: internet forums lol . People are far more likely to go online to complain about a gun than to sing its praises. I can almost guarantee you that if someone has had a problem with a gun, someone else has had that particular problem. Heck I have had obscure, head-scratching issues with cars that I didn't think were possible and still found people online that have had the same thing. Then we get into what you consider to be a trend. 3 threads, 10 threads, 100 threads? It starts getting very subjective.

And quite frankly no pistols are perfect. Let's take HKs for example as they cost large sums of money, which many would think equates to reliability. Now almost all of mine have been 100% out of box, and I've had about a dozen of them. But I read online about broker trigger returns springs and I did have one P30 with a overly stiff recoil spring that spit brass rearward, which some might argue is an "issue". Therefore my suggestion seems out, even out of the gate. I can't think of a single brand of pistol where I have not heard of any issues.

I don't think folks here are trying to trash your idea, they're just noting that getting any internet community to sign off on something as a whole is damn near impossible.
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Old November 2, 2013, 10:56 AM   #22
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedudeabides View Post
I don't like the term "combat pistol," it's just a BS marketing term to sell black guns with night sights, tacticool rails, extended mags and grabby grips at a premium to mall ninjas.
Like it or not, the term "combat pistol" has been around longer than most of us, and isn't going to go away. Some classic handguns even have the word "Combat" as part of their name. Combat handguns existed before there were rails, extended mags, grabby grips, OR mall ninjas.

Personally, I mostly use the term "duty" or "service" class for guns intended for uniform holster wear by police & military.

Quote:
Exactly! There's no reason you can't go into combat with a Taurus PT-22, a Phoenix HP25A, or a Desert Eagle in your drop leg holster! All pistols are made for combat!
"All pistols are made for combat!" ?? Really? Its tough to tell, but I really hope this is sarcasm. Because if it isn't, you just lost a LOT of creditability.
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Old November 2, 2013, 11:18 AM   #23
rs97
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Which combat pistols does everyone agree have no issues?



Which combat pistols does everyone agree have no issues?

These come to mind:
Colt 1911
BHP
Tokarev
Makarov
Walther P-38
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Old November 2, 2013, 11:35 AM   #24
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The two proven best combat pistols out there would be the Colt 1911A1 and the Makarov PM. Period.
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Old November 2, 2013, 11:42 AM   #25
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Pistols with the fewest complaints...

Some guns & brands do work better than others.
I've had issues with many "combat pistols" in the past.
I had a rental gun range Glock 21 .45acp jam on me. But I think it was due to poor cleaning/service & the reloaded .45acp ammunition.
I had a S&W 3913 9mm misfire too.
My own 96D .40S&W had a range problem but it was a 1 in 10,000 chance of a tiny metal sliver being stuck in the rear of the extractor.
Even the range officer couldn't explain how it happened.
As noted, the Browning P-35/Hi Power in 9x19mm or .40 is a great sidearm or combat pistol. It, like the 1911 series was in use all over the world for decades.

I never shot or used a CZ75 9mm but they are highly rated too.
Gun owners & armed professionals rarely complain about Kahr pistols either.
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