The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 1, 2013, 04:15 AM   #1
kcub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2010
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 2,017
Are M&P's gaining ground on Glocks amongst LEO's?

Last Saturday I woke up early and went to Denny's for breakfast. Whenever I'm at a restaurant and there are cops I always check out their hardware, I'm sure most of us do that.

It so happened that there was a table of 2 Austin PD officers and 2 Travis county deputies at another table. Both tables were armed exactly the same, yellow taser on the left hip, S&W M&P on the right. I assume they were all .40's. As they left they both told the others to stay safe. I gotta tell ya, between them and the 2 guns I was legally packing concealed I felt pretty safe myself.

Hence the captioned question.
kcub is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 05:01 AM   #2
Noreaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 30, 2011
Location: New England
Posts: 1,322
In my area the M&P has exploded in the Police market. Not only replacing glock but also Sig.
Noreaster is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 06:12 AM   #3
ClydeFrog
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2010
Posts: 5,798
M&Ps ....

I've owned 2 M&Ps with no major complaints.
I started to tote my .45acp compact in a Blackhawk SERPA & a Uncle Mike's instructor belt concealed under a 5.11 shirt most often.
I may buy a new vest around Xmas to aid carry in hot weather/humid climates.

As for my area's LE agencies, SIG has a training program & LE deal with the metro PD(approx 800 sworn officers). They've used P226 9x19mm pistols since 1990. That isn't going to change soon.
The sheriff's sworn deputies carry Glock 21s & 30s. They have a fairly open carry policy but most use Glock pistols. Either the 21, 22, 23, 17/19, or a few model 36 sub compacts.
About 4 years ago I saw a "old timer" who still had a Beretta 92F 9x19mm. I think he might of been retired & using the sidearm he was still using pre-2002.

I'd feel more than capable with a .40 or even better a .357sig M&P full size. I'm left handed & would carry it with a white-light.
Several metro patrol officers I see carry lights on the sidearms with Blackhawk or Safariland holsters.
I'd add that newer "slim" magazine holders with 3 magazines are popular with LE here too.

Clyde
PS: a few suburban area PDs still issue SIGs in .40 or .45acp.
ClydeFrog is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 01:46 PM   #4
presspics
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2001
Location: NH
Posts: 255
Yes...
__________________
"Quid Clarius Astris"
presspics is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 01:55 PM   #5
kcub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2010
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 2,017
I didn't know the mp came in 357 Sig.
kcub is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 03:06 PM   #6
UncleEd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 13, 2013
Location: N. Georgia
Posts: 257
In some instances, the M&P has displaced the Glock but I don't think it's a sweeping trend.

I believe the Atlanta PD, after decades of having S&W pistols and revolvers just dumped its M&Ps in favor of Glock. The decision no doubt was made because of cost and proximity of manufacturer support since Glock is located just a few miles from Atlanta.

Whatever you say about Glock, it did a superb job of selling its product through demonstrations, wooing city and state officials, and particularly with pricing for a product that does work very, very well.

At one point Glock was forbidden for the Chicago PD because the thinking was that the city didn't want a "single action" auto; it had had NDs and paid out a lot of money because of the 1911 family of guns. Now, Glock is approved.

LA PD was a Smith and Beretta stronghold. Now it's part of Glock country.

I think Glock will remain king of the hill for a long, long time.

The way I see it, the only alternative is the DA/SA Sig line (not in pricing but in professional preference) and for those rugged renegades the 1911 design.
OK, if money is available to a PD, then maybe the H&K line such as the P30.
UncleEd is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 03:18 PM   #7
WESHOOT2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 1999
Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country)
Posts: 14,213
It, the XD, and the other contenders are seriously eroding Glock's market share.
__________________
.
"all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"
WESHOOT2 is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 04:55 PM   #8
dogtown tom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2006
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 1,514
Smith and Wesson is staring to adopt Glock's marketing plan..........sell pistols to law enforcement agencies at a ridiculously low price (often trading in the previous guns to S&W).......and then advertise the adoption of S&W to anyone that will listen.

Glock started doing this in the '80's..........S&W finally caught on.
__________________
Need a FFL in north Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me.

$20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers)
dogtown tom is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 04:57 PM   #9
dogtown tom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2006
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 1,514
Quote:
WESHOOT2 It, the XD, and the other contenders are seriously eroding Glock's market share.
What law enforcement agency issues the XD?
__________________
Need a FFL in north Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me.

$20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers)
dogtown tom is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 05:06 PM   #10
LockedBreech
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 6, 2009
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 3,000
In Wyoming, the Highway Patrol switched from Gen 3 G22s to M&P40s. The trend isn't really breaking into the municipal departments, which tried the M&Ps but still largely prefer Glocks (based on the many friends/acquaintances I have that work on both HP and in various municipalities). Most sheriffs offices and many municipalities in WY let people bring their personal in, others are pretty strictly single-gun (for instance, Gillette is Glock 22 Gen 3, Rock Springs is Sig P226 .40, Laramie is bring-your own, and pretty much every Sheriff's office is bring-your own).

You can tell WY is a gun-loving state because last winter when a pair of officers came to my door to ask about a local issue, the old-timer had the Glock 22 and the young early-twenties officer had a stainless 1911. We chatted about guns for about three times longer than the issue they'd come to my door for. I showed them my Berettas, they talked about their G22 and Kimber Stainless TLE II, and the older guy said he has an HK USP .45 he brings sometimes instead.

I'll tell ya, people laugh at Wyoming cops because they don't have to deal with much crime, but my dad was on WHP for about two decades and some of the realities of the job he has told me in the years since his retirement are pretty harrowing. Imagine fighting a perp for your gun knowing the nearest backup is about 50 miles away.
__________________
Beretta PX4 .40 S&W | Beretta 92FS 9x19 Para | Rock Island Armory GI 1911 .45 ACP | Colt Python 4" .357 Magnum | Colt 1968 Det. Spec. .38 Spc. | Ruger LCP .380 ACP | Daniel Defense M4V1 5.56x45 | Alpine M1 Carbine .30 | Steyr M1895 8x56 | Ruger 10/22 .22LR |1943 Izhevsk Mosin-Nagant M91/30 7.62x54R | Remington 870 12GA
LockedBreech is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 05:44 PM   #11
jfost
Member
 
Join Date: January 14, 2009
Location: Norfolk, Va
Posts: 41
dogtown tom has the right idea. I heard about the trade in program a long a time ago, but drew no interest to investigate further. I believe it is real though. I remember glock's website 3 or 4 years ago saying that they were in the hands of 80% of law enforcement. Maybe a year ago I took a look at the site it said glocks were in the hands of 60% of law enforcement. I immediately remembered hearing about the m&p buy back and thought that the program must be working. Remember there was a boycott after s&w signed with the Clinton administration to limit the sales of guns and ammo and different kinds of safety features on their products and all of that jazz when s&w was owned by Tomkins (I think). I don't know all of the specifics, but that's the gist. There are still guys out there who hate s&w for that, but it did hit their reputation really hard for a while. Looks like they are recovering quite nicely from that debacle though.
jfost is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 06:47 PM   #12
Noreaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 30, 2011
Location: New England
Posts: 1,322
My agency did a T/E on M&P 40s and the LE distributor was really pushing the M&P45. He ended up sending us two M&P45s with the 40s we requested. There have been numerous PDs switching to M&P 45.
Noreaster is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 06:49 PM   #13
RBid
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 10, 2012
Posts: 1,054
Are M&P's gaining ground on Glocks amongst LEO's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogtown tom View Post
What law enforcement agency issues the XD?
Beat me to it.

I've seen a list, and it's about as impressive as "Pete, Ray Ray, and my other brother Daryl."
RBid is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 07:43 PM   #14
Adamantium
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 6, 1999
Location: El Paso, TX
Posts: 992
For our Dept. both are on the approved list but Glocks far outnumber M&Ps. They wanted to start making recruits buy Glocks (we purchase our own pistols) but the gun scare has forced them to allow M&Ps as well. XD/XD's are not on the list for Patrol but they are for Traffic and SWAT, go figure. I don't think I've seen anyone carry one though. After that you see a few Sig and Beretta pistols but not many because all guns have to be 40 or 45. A few old timers still use 3rd gen S&Ws and I while a few people are grandfathered in to the Model 10s, I haven't seen anyone carry one.

Where I see the most M&Ps is competition shooting. With an Apex trigger job they are becoming preferred to a Glock with a new trigger bar.

The biggest gripe people have about the M&Ps is that on the factory night sights the white paint around the tritium vial starts falling off after a few hundred rounds. Not on all of them but on at least 20% which is way too much.
__________________
New gun, same ol' shot.
Adamantium is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 08:22 PM   #15
fastbolt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 9, 2002
Location: northern CA for a little while longer
Posts: 1,482
Yes, S&W has been making significant in-roads in the LE market once again.

LASD, after much testing over the last 2-3 years, has decided to buy close to 10,000 M&P 9's over the next 5 years. (Expect M&P magazine sales to become even more difficult as that contract gets filled. )

Both Glock and S&W are doing fine, with LE & commercial production so heavily back-ordered that I'd be surprised if either of them can really begin to get caught up by this time next year.

You're still going to see some continual "back & forth" as LE agencies may change brands for whatever reasons they feel may be appropriate.

Bear in mind there's a difference between the agencies who issue duty weapons and those who authorize the purchase and use of personally-owned weapons. It's certainly possible for an agency to be considered a Brand X agency for what they issue, but then at the same time approve their people to buy & carry Brand Y weapons. Then there are agencies who may issue more than one brand, as well as approve the optional personal purchase of more than one brand.

There are close to 18,000 state/local LE agencies in the US, and approx 65% of those apparently have 10 or fewer sworn employees. Good luck trying to come up with any sort of comprehensive list of who's carrying what. It'll change next week, too.
__________________
Retired LE - firearms instructor & armorer
fastbolt is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 08:30 PM   #16
Jbar4Ranch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 1999
Location: Near Helena, Montana
Posts: 1,541
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcub
I didn't know the mp came in 357 Sig.
It's not available to the civilian market anymore, effective 2010 I think, BUT you can buy a .40 cal and get a .357 Sig barrel for it.

I attended a S&W armorer's course in 2011 and one of the perks was, upon completion of the course, students could buy any standard M&P pistol factory direct for $199. I wanted the .357, but was told it was no longer available to the civilian market, so I went with a .40 and bought 9mm & .357 barrels for it.
__________________
Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced...

SASS 47015
Jbar4Ranch is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 08:35 PM   #17
Dragline45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2010
Posts: 2,422
I tend to take notice of what sidearms officers are carrying, and lately I have been seeing just as many M&P's as Glock's on LEO's hips. Personally, I think the M&P line has much better ergo's than Glock and because of that I prefer the M&P.
Dragline45 is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 09:08 PM   #18
ClydeFrog
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2010
Posts: 5,798
Beverly Hills CA PD....

A few US law enforcement agencies use XDs & XDm pistols.
Not many, but there are some west coast PDs like Beverly Hills CA that issue them.
Most PDs get the .40S&W over the .45acp.

FWIW, about 3 months ago, I saw a tv news segment with a crime scene of a local small PD. The police detective had a 1911a1 pistol in a SERPA holster.
2 big "no nos" with so many modern gun & LE policy experts.

HK sidearms seem to be just in the metro DC area & federal agents. No sworn LE near me uses any HK pistols.
ClydeFrog is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 09:09 PM   #19
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 4,314
Quote:
HK sidearms seem to be just in the metro DC area & federal agents. No sworn LE near me uses any HK pistols.
HK has a very large contract with CBP for the P2000 LEM variant in 40SW. It's kind of funny because while the P2000 isn't overly popular on the civilian side, it's one of HKs biggest sellers in the US currently.

But as for regular police departments, no HK doesn't see a ton of use. I think they're just too pricy.
__________________
Guns don't kill people. Apes with guns kill people! - Robin Williams
TunnelRat is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 09:38 PM   #20
Constantine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 5,177
lol these threads I swear...

Police use Glock, HK, SIG, M&P...etc etc etc etc
__________________
Sáncte Míchael Archángele, defénde nos in proélio, cóntra nequítiam et insídias diáboli ésto præsídium. Ímperet ílli Déus, súpplices deprecámur: tuque, prínceps milítiæ cæléstis, Sátanam aliósque spíritus malígnos, qui ad perditiónem animárum pervagántur in múndo, divína virtúte, in inférnum detrúde. Ámen
Constantine is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 10:49 PM   #21
Sarge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 12, 2002
Location: MO
Posts: 4,911
The M&P is indeed gaining ground, though I doubt it will displace the Glock anytime soon.
__________________
I'm inclined to think if a man hasn't gotten his point across in 4912 attempts, 4913 probably isn't going to do it.
Sarge is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 11:03 PM   #22
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 6,757
Quote:
HK sidearms seem to be just in the metro DC area & federal agents.
Coincidence?

OPM ..... (Other People's Money) and those Other People are far away, for the most part.
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 11:24 PM   #23
shortwave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2007
Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO
Posts: 5,930
Quote:
Are M&P's gaining ground on Glocks amongst LEO's?
Yep.
shortwave is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 11:34 PM   #24
toolguy2006
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2010
Location: Western Washington State
Posts: 144
FWIW:

The S+W rep that taught the armorers course in the gun store where I work claimed that Smith was running a 85% conversion rate in LEO market from Glock to Smith. Of course the rep is supposed to say things like that.

More recently, however, a local highway patrolman came through our store, and told us that they had switched from HK to Smith because of the fantastic deal that Smith offered to switch.

Sounds to me like Smith is really trying to sell those M+P's!
toolguy2006 is offline  
Old November 2, 2013, 12:20 AM   #25
ClydeFrog
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2010
Posts: 5,798
HK-USA....

I think HK's USA div made a lot of + business from the fact that they were HQed in northern VA for many years. The firm also had the impressive MP5 sub-machineguns & sniper rifles so many procurement officers or contract specialists could have a simple one-stop solution for small arms, training, support & parts/accessories.
Don't get me wrong. I'd buy a P2000 LEM, a P30 LEM or a HK45 compact LEM in a second.
To my knowledge, Ablemarle County VA(Charlottesville) PD issues the HK USP Compact .40S&W.
In the 1990s, they & many other LE agencies in MD/VA/DE used the Beretta 92F 9mm.


Clyde
ClydeFrog is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.14178 seconds with 9 queries