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Old October 25, 2013, 05:04 PM   #1
simonrichter
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.22lr ammo for mouse guns?

Is there anything like .22lr with real fast burning powder, intended for super short barrels, thus avoiding the rather massive flash and bang normally associated with the combination of mouse gun and .22lr?
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Old October 26, 2013, 05:01 PM   #2
Darker Loaf
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Only type of that ammo I know of is .22 WMR: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/994...ding-box-of-50

http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/short_brl.aspx

For example.
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Old October 26, 2013, 05:51 PM   #3
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Personally...if I have to draw my Beretta Bobcat and cut loose with some 22's on a miscreant, I want the biggest, brightest muzzle flash and boom possible.
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Old October 26, 2013, 06:28 PM   #4
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Mice in action.

simonrichter what action is the gun?

I have shot the NAA and it is very accurate with .22 shorts.
It would be interesting to see the differences in velocity in various loads.
The Beretta semi auto is a different animal as for the Taurus 94 snub in 2 inch.
My main concern would be reliability.
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Old October 26, 2013, 06:49 PM   #5
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For practice or self defense?
For practice most 40 grain standard or high velocity rounds are pretty mellow.

For self defense, reliability is the first concern, and I would start with Stingers then work down from there. You need reliable priming and all the power you can get to cycle a mouse gun.
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Old October 26, 2013, 07:06 PM   #6
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Massive flash and bang out of a .22lr,really?
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Old October 26, 2013, 07:08 PM   #7
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While I do have a 22 mousegun, a Taurus PT22 Poly, It is not in my carry rotation. If I were restricted to using It for SD I would be looking for the most reliable load that shoots accuratly, and provides the highest energy level approiate for the gun. I would not worry about flash and bang.
Even with one of the mini revolvers, or derringer I would be more concerned about accuracy, and power.
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Old October 26, 2013, 08:25 PM   #8
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I'd use Aguila SSS 60 grain out of a revolver. It's unstable and tumbles and does nasty damage for a .22

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GwRgIpbflA

This says its out of a Walther P22.
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Old October 27, 2013, 04:54 AM   #9
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My mouse's gun won't chamber 22's.

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Old October 28, 2013, 11:46 AM   #10
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I have a PT22 ply, too
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Old October 28, 2013, 12:55 PM   #11
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I never had a issue with using Yellow Jacket Hyper velocity in my NAA. CCI is a good choice.
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Old October 29, 2013, 06:28 PM   #12
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Hyper velocity

CCI Velocitors -1435 fps
Aguila Supermaximum -1750 fps
CCI Stingers - 1640 fps
Aguila Interceptor -1470fps......not shown in pic
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Old October 29, 2013, 06:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
I have a PT22 ply, too
Hyper velocity ammo is not recomended by Tauras in the PT22
Also, the only hyper velocity ammo I tried in my Waltger P22, Agulia Supermax would not function. It would eject the spent round, but not pick up fresh round from the magazine.
Thinking the 30 gr bullet, even at hyper velocity, did not have enough recoil energy to fully cycle the slide.
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Old October 29, 2013, 09:19 PM   #14
Doc TH
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mosegun 22 LR loads

Agree that reliability trumps all other considerations. That might imply a high quality target cartridge like Lapua, Eley, etc. However, I have never had a malfunction in Beretta 21A using CCI Stinger or Minimag ammo. So, that's what I use.
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Old November 1, 2013, 03:33 PM   #15
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here; not there

My always is an NAA mini in 22LR, and its back-up always-around gun is a Taurus PT22.
They are on me and with me now, like always.

I use LRN ammo that, when tested, functions without fail.



I consider the 22LR cartridge delivery machinery a 'contact' weapon.
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Old November 1, 2013, 03:34 PM   #16
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there, it ain't no 22

When I am not here, I assume a higher threat level, and wear a major-caliber gun. Too.
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Old November 3, 2013, 08:56 AM   #17
Walt Sherrill
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Just curious...

Can anyone here tell us about some real-world events that can be confirmed -- not just tales told by someone who knew someone, where carrying or using (i.e., actually firing) a very small .22 as a self-defense weapon, actually worked?

I have talked with friends who have worked in emergency rooms and who have dealt with people shot by .22s. (Lots of accidents with .22 rifles, and a few with pistols, ...) I have not heard of a case where a .22 carried for that purpose was actually used in a real-world Self Defense confrontation.

Can these weapons actually do what they are purchased to do?
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Old November 3, 2013, 10:27 AM   #18
amd6547
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That would difficult, if not impossible to answer.
However, the use of the Beretta Model 70 in 22lr as a concealed carry weapon by the Mossad points to the ability of the rimfire to serve as a weapon...and not just as a covert assassination weapon.
The famouse account of the El Al sky marshal defeating a band of armed hijackers with his Beretta 70 22 is legendary...
I don't know what kind of ammo they used back then, but I believe the 22LR ammo we can choose today is even better.
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Old November 3, 2013, 11:25 AM   #19
Walt Sherrill
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Quote:
The famouse account of the El Al sky marshal defeating a band of armed hijackers with his Beretta 70 22 is legendary...
Legendary, but not widely known. I had not heard of that episode, but found the following after Google searches. In reading the following link, I learned that he didn't defeat a band of hijackers; he engaged a group, and killed one, but was quickly assisted by police with larger weapons. The Sky Marshal, however, was an exceptional person.

http://www.tactical-life.com/magazin...mossad-22-lrs/

(I wonder why the sky marshal was using a .22 when he could have used almost any caliber in that role. This happened some time ago, and the choices available were more limited, but U.S. Air Marshals now use larger caliber weapons; I don't know whether any of them carry backup guns.)

It seems clear from the article that the choice of weapon may be MORE IMPORTANT than the round used -- a point not usually addressed in these discussions.

The Beretta 70 used can be carried cocked and locked, has a longer barrel (allowing the round to come closer to reaching it's potential), and has a long-established reputation for reliability. It should go without saying, that folks taking on these type of tasks are generally well-trained and experienced martial artists, and not like your neighbor who likes guns, or a fellow you shoot with at the range. Put differently, an EMT can use a scalpel, but that doesn't make him a surgeon.

Given that there is so little information available, I wonder why so many folks have so much confidence in these smaller weapons and calibers...

.

Last edited by Walt Sherrill; November 3, 2013 at 11:43 AM.
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Old November 3, 2013, 11:34 AM   #20
4V50 Gary
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The most important thing is reliability. You want the your mouse to speak every time you squeeze that trigger.

That said, then start looking for something that satisfies your criteria.
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Old November 3, 2013, 04:45 PM   #21
Derbel McDillet
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SC Trooper Mark Coates was shot and rapidly incapacitated when his assailant shot him with a .22 mini-revolver during a traffic stop.

The best .22LR load for mouseguns is CCI's SGB (small game bullet). The flat nose crushes a larger diameter permanant cavity than a round nose or unexpanded hollowpoint bullet. Hollowpoint bullets don't expand when fired from mouseguns - even Stinger.
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Old November 3, 2013, 04:49 PM   #22
Derbel McDillet
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(Quote)You want the your mouse to speak...(/quote)

You want that mousegun to squeak every time you squeeze that trigger.
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Old November 3, 2013, 04:59 PM   #23
Walt Sherrill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derbel McDillet
The flat nose crushes a larger diameter permanant cavity than a round nose or unexpanded hollowpoint bullet.
That sounds like magic.

HOW does a flat nose create a larger diameter than a round nose (or unexpanded howllowpoint), as the rest of the bullet is the same diameter and the whole bullet is moving through tissue, not just the nose/tip. How do the experts explain that phenomenon?

Last edited by Walt Sherrill; November 3, 2013 at 05:05 PM.
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Old November 3, 2013, 05:17 PM   #24
Derbel McDillet
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Soft tissues flow around the smooth slipstream contours of a LRN or unexpanded LHP bullet. The sharp shoulder of a flatnose bullet crushes the tissues instead of allowing tissue to flow around.
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Old November 3, 2013, 06:27 PM   #25
Walt Sherrill
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Quote:
Soft tissues flow around the smooth slipstream contours of a LRN or unexpanded LHP bullet. The sharp shoulder of a flatnose bullet crushes the tissues instead of allowing tissue to flow around.
I understand the theory presented, but I'd have to see some actual results (but I don't know how that could be done) to really believe it makes that much difference. Particularly with such a small round traveling at such a relatively slow speed.
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