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Old October 9, 2013, 04:03 PM   #26
Glenn E. Meyer
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While someone should learn to 'fight' - I might point out that a 'fist' fight with an unknown assailant might turn into a knife fight. So naive views of a slug fest must be tempered with that realization. The combative courses I took emphasized using techniques that would let you disengage and get distance.

This was demonstrated by the Insights trainers with a large opponent - hey, let's have a slug fest and wrestle -they would turn the tide by gutting or slashing an adversary.
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Old October 9, 2013, 04:33 PM   #27
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As we say in the Boy Scouts,"Be Prepared".Some of the courses I have taken emphasized that the mind is the real weapon, everything else is a tool. I draw on my military experience and my graduating from TOW school and teaching anti-tank tactics. You can destroy a tank by blowing it up, but you can also defeat it through a firepower or mobility hit. Go for the eyes, the nose, the throat, remember that many ordinary items can be used in self defense. A key ring makes a good improvised brass knuckles, a pen or pencil a good stabber.
And having read-and re-read-Charlie Askins' works, I recall clearly his description of the "belly gun"-"You put it against your enemy's belly and pull the trigger!" I think we tend to overlook that a firearm is just as effective at point blank range as it is farther away.
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Old October 9, 2013, 04:41 PM   #28
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I'm one of those that is getting too old to fight, and for sure too old to fight young thug(s). I try to watch where I go.
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Old October 9, 2013, 05:07 PM   #29
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Ditto txray22.

And on being prepared, SIGSHR, who noted
Quote:
"belly gun"-"You put it against your enemy's belly and pull the trigger!" I think we tend to overlook that a firearm is just as effective at point blank range as it is farther away.
Way to close for me. I'd rather engage with a pistol out of knife range, or preferably from 100+ yards with a scoped instrument from cover.
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Old October 9, 2013, 06:50 PM   #30
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I read somewhere that something like 80% of all fatal shootings occur at less than 5 feet, so hand to hand combat it is at least 80% of the time.

I've had hand to hand, Judo, riot baton, and bayonet training with the military, and I took ****o Ryu with a local instructor.
I've found the riot baton to be most effective/useful/versatile, a good walking cane will do.
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Old October 9, 2013, 09:43 PM   #31
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Quote:
hand to hand self defense anyone?
5th Dan World Taekwondo Federation (35+ years of it.)
Boxing
Krav Magaist
JKD practitioner.

Other than that I play badminton.

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Old October 9, 2013, 10:04 PM   #32
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hand to hand self defense anyone?

Tactical badminton is all the rage nowadays. If anyone needs stippling on their racket, PM me.
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Old October 9, 2013, 10:35 PM   #33
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I nominate Deaf as most desired TFL'er to walk down a dark Sunnyside alley in South Houston with.
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Old October 10, 2013, 05:40 AM   #34
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fight dirty, as dirty as you can. I learned the hard way, it only took a couple of times to learn. I don't look for trouble and try to be aware of what's going on around me. To me there's no such thing as "hand to hand" fighting. I use everything I got or can get my hands on, teeth, (which by the way is extremely effective on ears), fingers in eyes, and the all around favorite, the crotch shot. If 4~5 jump you then run, run really fast.
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Old October 10, 2013, 06:25 PM   #35
Deaf Smith
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I nominate Deaf as most desired TFL'er to walk down a dark Sunnyside alley in South Houston with.
I am humbled by your confidence in me TXAZ.

But remember, I'm 58 years old. That can be good and bad.

The good part is the older you get, the dirtier you fight. And I am well trained at dirty fighting.

The bad part is I ain't so fast anymore! I can do splits with my legs facing forward but not sideways. And I hate stretching!

Hence I use my hands, knees, elbows, and Glocks more. Spinning heal kicks are now out of my repertory as for realistic use. I am also a IPSC class 'A' stock pistol, and IDPA expert or above in all categories.

Glocks and S&Ws. You can take on 3 grand masters like Pai Mei (in Kill Bill) and lay them low with a good gun and a steady hand. But with just hands and feet it might be a real hard sell to go against a few Banditos bikers!

The key is keeping your gun handy, eyes open, and staying out of dark alleys. Hands and feet are last ditch defense.

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Old October 11, 2013, 12:31 PM   #36
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I would learn some small stuff first. Aikido, judo, krav maga. Brazilian jujitsu is a waste of time for more than one attacker. Aikido is excellent for weaker people. Same with judo. Krav is more of a brawling art. Steven seagel is a joke when it comes to acting but watch his movies, the aikido is very real. Good luck in your journey to the martial arts.
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Old October 11, 2013, 01:05 PM   #37
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To me there's no such thing as "hand to hand" fighting. I use everything I got or can get my hands on, teeth, (which by the way is extremely effective on ears), fingers in eyes, and the all around favorite, the crotch shot. If 4~5 jump you then run, run really fast.
The courts must be lenient in America. If you did that here in a bar braw for example you could be up in court for grievous bodily harm. As for martial arts it wouldent do any harm to learn some but I am sure that its not for everyone.
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Old October 11, 2013, 03:30 PM   #38
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The courts must be lenient in America. If you did that here in a bar braw for example you could be up in court for grievous bodily harm. As for martial arts it wouldent do any harm to learn some but I am sure that its not for everyone.
If you did that sort of thing in the US in just a standard "bar brawl", you'd likely be brought up on charges as well. However, if you're in grave personal danger, you have the right to protect yourself by most means necessary. There's several variables involved in every situation, but basically, if you are the one attacked, you do what you need to do to save yourself and get away.
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Old October 11, 2013, 04:34 PM   #39
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It's not that a 5'11" cannot fight. It's that typically the 5'6" 110 lb guy isn't the one picking a fight with the 5'11" 185 lb guy. It's the 6'3" 220 lb guy and if he can handle himself he's going to wear down the smaller fighter. You can't teach size, which is why there are weight classes in pretty much all levels of organized fighting.
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Old October 11, 2013, 05:13 PM   #40
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I've met some 5' 4" 120 lb guys that could tie you up with your own legs and flat out clean your clock, no matter how big you are.

It's not the dog in the fight, it's the fight in the dog.
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Old October 11, 2013, 05:18 PM   #41
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It's not that a 5'11" cannot fight. It's that typically the 5'6" 110 lb guy isn't the one picking a fight with the 5'11" 185 lb guy. It's the 6'3" 220 lb guy and if he can handle himself he's going to wear down the smaller fighter. You can't teach size, which is why there are weight classes in pretty much all levels of organized fighting.
I agree!

I'm 5ft 8in and to go toe-to-toe with a 6ft 2 inch 200 muscle man, well that is why I learned the art of Glockdo.

Yes if all have is hands and feet well, that's all I got but I will sure look around for anything as a weapon (lamp, table, chair, bottle, belt, rock, book, towel, etc.. and I'll attack first if need be.

But, as Ernest Hemingway said, "the comforting feel of well worn checkered grips" is not something to sneeze at.

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Old October 16, 2013, 07:39 PM   #42
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I have trained in multiple styles of Kung Fu, Some Karate, multiple Filipino styles based on knives and sticks, and a dash of Krav Maga. The only other style I've learned about is Libre System, and that's some great stand up fighting, but not used in relation to firearms. All I really learned of Krav Maga were disarms and some knife work.

In what I have seen and practiced, the full mount doesn't seem to happen as often as a lot of Jiujitsu stylists seem to portray. The video posted makes me think of two questions: Why draw while on the ground when you can wait for a better position? (It's showing you have a weapon while offering a dominant position to the opponent. Why fight over the gun when you could simply talk them down from here?) For civilians, why have your gun out against an unarmed opponent? If you're standing up, they are a threat, but not lethal, you should not be drawing. If you are young enough to use that technique, there's quite the chance you could use better open hand defense on your feet. If you aren't young enough, there's a chance that by the time you've drawn, been knocked down, and you are trying this technique, they may very well have beaten you.

On your feet, it's all in footwork, hands, and communication. But as we all know, excrement happens...

Carrying a gun that doesn't fire without a magazine is an optimum choice if you see yourself in this position. Drop the mag. Now you're fighting over a bludgeoning tool, not a firearm. If you carry a revolver, cover where the hammer strikes, or if possible, open the cylinder and keep it open. Secondary to these options, a knife is excellent in this position. Small and fixed bladed, icepick grip, edge in. Something like the SOCP Dagger is what I would suggest. This is of course my opinion according to my training and experience.

If you find yourself there, and you attempt this technique, and it works, that's great. I don't like that it involves aiming the gun in a direction you can't see, and that the opponent may very well rip the gun out of your hand before you can push them off of it, if you can. I would rather fight the structure of the wrists and hands by aiming the gun lower on them, making it harder to grip. Just a thought on it.

If you're looking for answers, it's sometimes best to learn things and try them out yourself. The best, most violent criminals do it, and it works for them.
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Old October 16, 2013, 08:45 PM   #43
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ARCON ground fighting... but other than that I punch a bag. I am no tuff guy but I have always been the kind of person who focuses of what I am going to do.. not what someone is going to do to me.
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Old October 18, 2013, 09:17 PM   #44
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Brazilian Ju Jitsu. It will humble you. I practice Muay Thai and Bjj. It works well. I am not an internet commando, I have actually been doing these things for around 9 years now...actively sparring. When I first started, I tried sparring someone with basic knowledge of BJJ, it didn't go well for me. So I started do it too. If anyone reading this doesn;t believe me, find a gym in your area and go spar someone in an MMA style bout who knows BJJ and see how you do.
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Old October 18, 2013, 09:50 PM   #45
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Yeah the good old 120lb superman, then there is brock lesner, bigfoot, alastair ovareem, lennox lewis, and a plethora of" big guys" that would "clean his clock." Proving the old saying," if the big dog has as much fight, cliches have no place in reality,".... or something like that.
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Old October 18, 2013, 10:01 PM   #46
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I've done it, they usually can't get me to the ground, much less before I'd have hit them in the throat, groin, or given a kick to the knee. One was a great fighter too, one of the best I've had the pleasure of sparring. BJJ has its place, but is too focused on staying on the ground for most situations. It teaches manipulating positions, holds/breaks, and great joint manipulation, but it focuses on one person. I won't deny its effective use, and it's not fun to not know it when you're on the ground with a practitioner. As long as one isn't too caught up in it as a self defense style, it can be useful. I see too many people with the mindset that it's a hammer and everything around them is a nail.

As a rule, I leave sport styles behind in terms of self defense. Boxing is a clear one, you don't carry padded gloves to absorb blows to the face. Muay Thai is great, but a lot of the strikes take some conditioning for most people to be able to do effectively. It's a very hard style in terms of impact on the body, and most people won't get as much technical knowledge from it.
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Old October 18, 2013, 10:31 PM   #47
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Boxing shows up in krav maga. In krav maga you will learn the uppercut, hook, and jab... I think that boxing in the ring is a sport, but you can certainly apply boxing to self defense.


As for BJJ...

Brazilian jiu-jitsu has its origins in Judo, however the training is out right dangerous to ones health. It might give a few years where a practitioners conditioning is good, but shortly thereafter, neurological problems; very much like what happens in the NFL, may start to show up.

Even you are not fighting in a ring, even if you do not compete at all, you can absolutely destroy your joints, your hearing, your brain with that style training. Blown out knees, screwy ankles, spinal problems, cauliflower ear... I have seen these happen to people first hand.

BJJ might be todays, "new cool school of fighting," but old school Judo can be just as effective for self defense, is far more spiritual, and can improve body conditioning to old age.
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Old November 3, 2013, 10:11 PM   #48
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I'll second the Shivworks recommendation. Nothing like going through the ECQC class to show you that what you think works really does not and put you on the path to learning what does.
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Old November 4, 2013, 11:19 PM   #49
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I would recommend that you start with the basics.

I did Tae Kwon Do for years, wrestled for 4 years in high school, some Kung Fu, fought is some full contact tourneys 30 years ago. In LE been trained in PPCT, several styles of batons, ground fighting, weapon retention. Dominated in LE fights for over 30 years.

You need formal training, making it up as you go is not going to cut it if you are up against a trained fighter. I don't care how big you are. I would much rather fight 3 guys that do not know how to fight as a team than 1 really good fighter.
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Old November 6, 2013, 12:50 AM   #50
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First why. Simple really. Got into a situation that went badly and could have went really, really bad. I discovered two things. There is the stuff we grow up with. Playground fights to bar or club altercations and so on and there is truly violent fights and crime. I knew zero about the latter and that isn't fun. Started a martial arts class and started looking at youtube for fight videos. Very boring until one long google session I found a website called warriors path redux. It was a site of fight and crime videos cataloged in an interesting way. Was pretty illuminating to someone with zero real life experience. So now I use Kelly McCann aka Jim Grover high risk combatives and Michael Janich's martial blade concepts/damnithurtsilat. I'm still sticking with the dojo I started with, but not for the system. Everyone needs training partners.
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