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Old September 26, 2013, 12:14 AM   #1
ZVP
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Bleeding and Plastic

Life is getting more complex every day! My trucks have been broken into twice in 2 years while in the driveway, now just about 2 months sgo someone tried to steal my old '86 Ford 4x4 parked in front of the house!
Now I live in a small town with nice homes in a clean neighborhood not the ghetto or in a large city...
I decided it was time tobuild up a HD Shotgun and keep it just in case things get crazier!
I bought a used Mossberg dealer gun from a Pawn shop and cut the bbl down to 19" added a good recoil pad and it was ready to go.
I read up on all I could about HD shotgunning and noticed that the "In Thing" is lights plastic stocks and rails everywhere to hang stuff on!
WHY make a hard kicking gun sharp on all corners and edges? For Christ's sake a 12 ga Shotgun is one of the hardest kicking animals around, why add sharp plastic cheese graders to it?
I saw and handled some of these plastic stocks and I guarentee blisters within 2 boxes of shells! Sharp impressed checkering and sharp casting "flash" everywhere!
Naw, give me smooth wood permanentlly fixed in position on the gun. No folding buttstocks to unlock at the wrong time! sharp ends on the pump forearm to bite you!
Kinda makes me wonder who'll be doing the most bleeding the good or bad guy???
I was told long ago that a "Good" gun feels like an old bar of soap and I have tried to follow that advice with all my guns over the years.
This is the way my HD Shotgun feels and I doubt it'll bite you anywhere your hands need to be.
For those of you who also have an adversion to bleeding, think about an old bar of soap...
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Old September 26, 2013, 02:34 AM   #2
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Sounds right to me...
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Old September 26, 2013, 04:43 AM   #3
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^^^Me too.

I've had my "ole" stripped down, HD shotgun longer then I've had my underwear....and you know how long most guys like to keep their underwear...till the last "fruit-a-the-loom" guy is barely hanging from the elastic.
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Old September 26, 2013, 05:18 AM   #4
Virginian-in-LA
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You will never be able to kill zombies or scare people on sight with a simple rig like that.
My cousin lives in just North of Atlanta, and the crime has gotten silly there too. The thieves have learned that the pickings are better in the better neighborhoods.
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Old September 26, 2013, 07:47 AM   #5
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.

Yep.

The famous bank-robber, Willie Sutton, once replied when asked why he robbed banks: "That's where the money is".



.
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Old September 26, 2013, 09:47 AM   #6
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Cheese graters should be used to grate cheese, not fingers. I have enough ambient light from inside and outside my home and no kids, so a light is not necessary, let alone the bayonet/grenade launcher gizmos adding a lot of weight up front making the gun unwieldy.

K.I.S.S. is a philosophy lost on many of the video game crowd where imaginary weapons can do everything from bake bread to split atoms.......
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Old September 26, 2013, 10:03 AM   #7
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I like the Grenade Launcher idea! That is the next step over a 12 ga!
Yea I can see lobbing Gewnades inside the house...
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Old September 26, 2013, 10:04 AM   #8
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Forgot to thank you all for the replies! Forgive my manners.
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Old September 26, 2013, 07:52 PM   #9
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Don't forget the "must have" door breachers ,heat shields and flash suppressors.
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Old September 26, 2013, 09:29 PM   #10
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come on now

I can think of at least 27 different scenarios where I will need to breach my own bedroom door from the inside. In all 27 scenarios, it will require at least 7 shots, so the heat shield and flash suppressor (and don't forget the mag tube extension) will surely come in handy.

Don't you guys have an imagination, or watch any good movies?
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Old September 27, 2013, 07:21 AM   #11
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....so....is this a gun site or a place for a bunch of old guys to complain about what kids are doing these days?

Mildly curious if there's going to be anything custructive on this thread or just staring off into the distance looking wise as you rock back and forth in your rocking chairs....

There are lots of things I don't understand... Why someone would buy a gun that only holds 1 or 2 bullets, why someone would buy a gun with furniture on it that warps during different times of the year throwing off poi (just because said furniture is pretty), and why people just repeat stuff they read on the internet as gospel without actually knowing if its true or not...

Not really, I couldn't care less what furniture your gun wears, how many bullets your gun holds, or if your gun has a little flag that pops out of the barrel and says bang. None of my business really. Much like what car, truck, or suv people decide to buy, and if they want to lift it, put force induction on it, or blinging rims... Just none of my business really. If thats how THEY want to make something THEY own, who am I to judge? I'm sure we're all guilty of buying or modifying something with something that wasn't exactly NEEDED or useful...

As far as mag extenders, muzzle devices, and attachment points...they all have their purposes. Like competitions, asthetics, and ease of storage, use, or fitment.
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Old September 27, 2013, 09:34 AM   #12
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There has been plenty of constructive comments so far; perhaps you need to comprehend what is being said between the lines? Sometimes, simplest is also best.
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Old September 27, 2013, 10:17 AM   #13
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Looks like a bunch of guys hitching their pants and feeling superior while putting down anyone changing furniture to synthetics or making the shotgun able to carry more rounds or attachments.... In fact, those points were specifically mentioned with snide comments about video game generations, zombies, and movies...

If you think your wood is pretty, thats great. But don't confuse it as being better. If you want to limit yourself to 2, 3, or 4 rounds thats great, but don't pretend you're somehow superior because of it. If you think you can operate a pump shotgun and hold a flashlight in your other hand instead of attaching it... Thats fantastic but I call B.S.

Also, bayonet lugs and heat shields arn't new, and wasn't designed by the new generation. That is real old school trench gun stuff. Same with the folding stocks. Collapsable M4 style recoil reducing stocks are the new in thing.

Either way, if I'd of started a thread talking about wood splitting because it dries out and how worthless wood furniture is, and how I couldn't understand how archaic dinosaurs still used it (not that I feel that way, I enjoy a beautiful gun just as much as the next guy...I'm just using that to make a point) I'm sure my thread would've been locked and/or deleted post-haste.

The OP's only intent was to put-down, make fun of, and complain about other people's guns.

And just fyi, I have shotguns with wood and plastic furniture. No intention of swapping either over to the other. My synthetic has an 18.5" barrel, and the only modification I've done so far is a hogue fore arm. So I'm not defending my choices of furniture, cheese graters or mag extensions, just calling it how I see it.
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Old September 27, 2013, 02:07 PM   #14
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semi-problematic, There is more to it than what you see... Let's say a little missing the forest for the trees...

The sage advice here is gleaned from experience and research...

You mention wooden stock warping and plastic "furniture" in the same post...

Well let me tell you this... Unless your plastic stock cost far more than the rifle or shotgun it is going on, you can expect extensive warping in high heat (like in the back window of my hunting truck during deer season...

Seen it with both a mossberg stock and a remington express plastic...

I mean BAD!!!! Many degrees downward and sideways...

But also when many of us seen this "tactical" trend begin in about 1988 we fiddled with a few items... I like to say I believe there are more PGO grips in parts bins/boxes/drawers as there are on shotguns... We been there tried that learned and share our experience now... I really have "trained" with my arms with both myself in dark work etc and with friends both indoors and out...

Let me tell you, I have snagged lights and slings and the sort on drapes and lamp shades...

I also know the severe limitations of the PGO grip... Both in terms of accuracy and weapon retention when compared to a gun with a full traditional shotgun shape and style...

Please don't take the advice here wrong...

Brent
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Old September 27, 2013, 07:15 PM   #15
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Depends on what you want.
Do you want a Range Toy to have fun with and impress your buddies, or do you want a Real World defense gun.

If you want a Range Toy then HAVE a Range Toy. Load it up with anything that catches your eye. It's purpose is to have fun with.

If you want a Real World defense shotgun then form follows function and "simpler is better".
In defense guns complexity is a killer.
What makes the shotgun the most deadly gun in the world at close range is the speed at which you can get it on target and dump a load of buckshot into the target.
A good shotgunner will have handled the problem and moved on while a rifleman or pistol shooter is still aligning the sights and getting them on target.
In this case, "Speed kills...the bad guy".

Anything you add to a shotgun adds weight, bulk, and complexity and slows down the speed at which it can be used.
What you have to do is a totally honest cost-benefit analysis: If I add an accessory to the gun, what real benefit will that give me that will make up for the loss of speed???

You also have to do a Real World threat assessment.
What is the most likely situation in which the gun is likely to be used?
What is the least likely?
You take your best guess assessment of the probable threat and build a gun best able to deal with that.

If you live in a really bad, poorly lite neighborhood over run with gang members who like to stage mass assaults on houses the gun is going to be set up a lot different than a gun in a nice neighborhood that's well lighted and one block from the police station.

The problem is people get confused.
They tell themselves they want a defense gun but what they wind up with is a Range Toy.
They don't do an honest threat assessment and build a gun that would be very usable staging a bloody Marine assault on a terrorist hideout in Faluga, but isn't so good for checking out that bump in the hallway at 3:00 am.

A defense gun is like a golf club....you select the correct club for the task at hand. You just need to decide what the best implement is for the most likely job.
In defense shotguns you want the lightest, simplest gun that will do the job at hand.
The most difficult part of this is being really honest with yourself about what's needed.
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Old September 29, 2013, 08:39 PM   #16
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I like the "Range Toy" definition that has developed throughout this thred and I think I now get it!
You build a Shotgun like that to have your buddies eyes pop out when you uncase it but in the real world you have a plain, smooth short bareled Shotgun like mine...
I don't want to impress anyone 'Cept the bad guys.
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Old September 29, 2013, 08:48 PM   #17
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....so....is this a gun site or a place for a bunch of old guys to complain about what kids are doing these days?
If you wanna see them go all curmudgeon on ya, call it a "Shottie"!
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Old September 29, 2013, 10:10 PM   #18
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^^^jimbob

You just haaadd to go there didn't ya.

FWIW,

My son brings one of his buddies over to shoot every now and again. This fella has more wurly-gigs hangin off his shotgun then the space shuttle's got.

We're always raggin on each other and I told him he needs to mount a tripod with wheels on the thing.

He calls it his 'street rod' shotgun...I tell him it's a Studebaker.

Just for giggles, next time he comes out and comes down the driveway, I'm gonna meet him at his truck with the wheelbarrow and see if he needs help gettin his shotgun down to the range.
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Old September 29, 2013, 10:20 PM   #19
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if shotgun recoil bothers you there are breacher stocks that reduce recoil considerably.
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Old September 30, 2013, 06:37 PM   #20
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semi-problematic

You have a LOT to learn about shotgunning it seems.

Yep, us old farts with 30-50 years experience don't know what we're talking about...............

and BTW, MY comments were NOT snide, they were stated as true.......

The ones who want to add 10# of ancillary crap ARE the ones who think video games are reality......but feel free to make your gun so unwieldy that as a HD/SD gun it is like throwing an anvil at someone; some of prefer things to actually work as intended with speed, balance, and fluidity- you, of course, are free to do otherwise
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Old September 30, 2013, 07:43 PM   #21
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I forgot to add in my above post that my sons buddy calls his souped up shotgun his 'street rod shotgun' for the reason he just likes to build off the wall looking guns. But he also understands the intended purpose of his shotgun and a few of his pistols as well as two of his AK's are mostly for range fun.

His dad being an instructor at Cols. PD has allowed him to attend many PD practice drills. Including house/building sweeping tactics and SWAT tactics. This fella is very efficient with a pistol or long gun and realizes the difference in a firearm built for combat , LE work and a firearm built for everyday HD/SD.

I know that one of his HD shotguns is a streamlined Ithaca 37 with a slug bbl. and another an 870 riot gun. He handles both extremely well.

But I still like to rag on him cause I like him.
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Old September 30, 2013, 08:51 PM   #22
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D from fl, you might want to realize that the things you heard 50 years ago are a bit out dated and times have changed. If you think you don't need to see what you shoot at, thats perfectly fine, cause I don't live in florida. I hope you have lots of luck with that.

If you are so delusional to think a zmb chainsaw and a synthetic stock 870 or 500 are the same thing, then nothing else can be said that'd really matter.

Maybe you should do a little yardwork so your hands don't get blistered by them tough "cheese grater" stocks...not that you'd be able to shoot it enough because of that big bad recoil which apparently destroys you. And god forbid if there were more than 3-4 rounds in that pump before you had to reload. Yeesh, that ton of extra weight up front from that 3" mag tube extension and those extra 2 rounds must make it impossible to swing and point.

If you're really such a dainty lot unable to cope with such huge extremes, I just don't know how you survived so long...

Feel free to shoot antiques in the dark there D from fl. I'll keep identifying my target before shooting at those dangerous hat-racks. Hopefully I'll still be able to lift 10#'s when I get your age. Lol. Not to mention, I thought these new plastic stocks were supposed to make that big kickin 12 gauge lighter and even harder to shoot?

I think it's you that may need to learn a bit about shotgunning. I may not know how to shoot trap and skeet or which 2 shot shotgun is best for hitting pieces of clay...but I have deployed with mossberg 500's, I've done military ranges with them and used them in Iraq. I'm willing to bet i've got a bit more time using a shotgun against people and indoors than most.
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Old September 30, 2013, 08:51 PM   #23
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I forgot to add in my above post that my sons buddy calls his souped up shotgun his 'street rod shotgun' for the reason he just likes to build off the wall looking guns.
Is his Surname "Rooney"?

Inquiring Minds Want To Know.
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Old September 30, 2013, 09:33 PM   #24
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sawed off!

I would not lop the barrel off a shotgun that I intended as HD and might actually shoot somebody with.

Slug and true HD barrels are reasonably available, without opening the door to legal types who might make a legal toehold out of the fact that you shot the deceased with what amounts to a "sawed off shotgun".

Much better a short factory tube, that you occasionally hunt or compete with.
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Old September 30, 2013, 09:47 PM   #25
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Is his Surname "Rooney"?

Inquiring Minds Want To Know
No sir.
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