ATF Extending CLEO Sign Off to Trusts and Corporations - Page 4

Skans · September 23, 2013, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Not only would this cut back on demand for NFA items, there is also the issue of what happens to all the already paid-for but still pending NFA applications when this goes into effect. A giant cut in demand + a huge dump of NFA items at the same time is going to hurt. It almost looks like this regulation was designed to put people out of business as its primary goal.

The bill was probably designed to close a loophole in the regs/laws that permitted the suppressor business to grow as big as it did over the last 3-5 years. I saw something like this coming several years ago when folks thought that Trusts were the best thing since sliced bread to avoid the CLEO requirement. It effectively returns things to the way they were before NFA Trusts and the expansion of the suppressor industry.

FWIW, I like suppressors, machine guns, and other NFA items. I think the CLEO sign-off requirement is simply bad law. But, the NFA Trusts permitted cowardly CLEO's to get into office or to stop signing because whether or not they would sign-off was no longer an issue. You couldn't not know this was coming.

Venom1956 · September 27, 2013, 05:54 PM

Could the companies affected by this file something against this new ruling? Since it might damage their income?

tmorone · November 4, 2013, 08:24 PM

Has anyone been following this? Seems like the thread/ topic died pretty much everywhere online, and it's a pretty serious topic for those looking to purchase NFA items as well as dealers that rely on sales for a living

Bartholomew Roberts · November 5, 2013, 05:56 AM

The comment period ends in early December. Right now, we don't know what will happen until then.

tmorone · November 5, 2013, 08:02 PM

Fair enough, thanks

dustind · December 3, 2013, 01:16 AM

I am posting this in part to bump it to the top so people will add their comments to the ATF. Below are links to form letters if you would like to use them, and links to where to add your voice to this discussion.

www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/11/dean-weingarten/still-time-comment-proposed-regs-suppressors-sbr-nfa-trusts The comment period for the NFA trust issue ends on December 9th. TTAG is trying to get people to comment in our favor.

This Proposed Rule Document was issued by the ATF.

The linked TTAG article above has lots of good information. Here is the direct link to the comment area at www.regulations.gov Docket Detail ATF-2013-0001.

It is amazing how much stuff goes on at any time. Our government is so big that no one can keep track of even major parts of what it does, much less even try to have any real affect on what it does as a whole.

In related news HR 3478 Knife Owners’ Protection Act of 2013 would allow people to travel with knives if they are legal where they started and are headed. Just like the FOPA of 1986.

Armorer-at-Law · December 5, 2013, 10:37 AM

Here is a copy of the comments I submitted today. If anyone wants a copy of the exhibits, let me know. I took a more legalistic approach in my criticisms. The submission of first-hand accounts of CLEOs arbitrarily refusing to sign by others will be helpful too.

The deadline to submit comments is Monday, December 9th, so please follow the links in dustind's post above to submit yours.

Brian Pfleuger · December 5, 2013, 01:16 PM

Wow.

Well done, sir. That took a lot of work. Thank you.

Skans · December 5, 2013, 05:24 PM

That's a nicely prepared Brief, AAL! I read most of it. It cuts right to the heart of the matter with excellent reasoning. Even though there's less than a 10% chance BATFE will actually consider anything in it, given their track record for blatantly ignoring the law and willy-nilly making up laws however it sees fit, it's still a darned good effort. Better than anything I could come up with. It serves to remind me that preserving our rights is really all the effort we put into it. If we had the effort and support of the voting nation on our side, BATFE would do whatever we wanted them to do.

Anyway, I really just wanted to say thank you.

5.56RifleGuy · December 8, 2013, 02:01 PM

I commented today.

Armorer-at-Law · December 11, 2013, 03:59 PM

Updated ATF agenda statement indicates final action on proposed rule expected 06/00/2014: http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAg...&RIN=1140-AA43

balyon85 · December 11, 2013, 04:58 PM

I'm still curious how this effects currently submitted forms in process. Doubt my form 1 under a trust will be clear by then.

Armorer-at-Law · December 11, 2013, 09:59 PM

Quote:

I'm still curious how this effects currently submitted forms in process. Doubt my form 1 under a trust will be clear by then.

No way to know for sure, but likely that a clear cut-off date will be set and those submitted after a certain date would be processed under new rules (IF new rules ever go into effect).

balyon85 · December 11, 2013, 11:34 PM

My check cleared in September, I haven't called to get a "pending" date, so hope its already hit that status and with no info coming out till 6/2014, I hope thats when the "date" will be.

Bartholomew Roberts · December 13, 2013, 06:20 PM

Comment of the NRA-ILA on Proposed 41P Regulation

Coach Z · December 13, 2013, 07:28 PM

Anyone have any insight if I submit for a couple new stamps in this limbo period after the comments but before ruling. Finally have some free time and cash and would like to get two more suppressors and two sbr's, one DD. I think that would satisfy all of my NFA "needs"

Bartholomew Roberts · December 13, 2013, 08:53 PM

Nobody knows how the ATF will treat it right now. Which is exciting for those of us with pending forms.

balyon85 · December 13, 2013, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts

Nobody knows how the ATF will treat it right now. Which is exciting for those of us with pending forms.

Exciting is the word for it.....anxiously excited to see.

**Tom Servo** · December 13, 2013, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Nobody knows how the ATF will treat it right now. Which is exciting for those of us with pending forms.

The problem is that they're going to be taking on extra work, but they're not pulling in the tax revenue to cover it. That means they're unlikely to hire on extra help to pick up the workload.

That means longer wait times. As it is now, some Form 4's are taking nearly 11 months. We could see that extend to well over a year.

Bartholomew Roberts · January 15, 2014, 08:12 PM

The American Silencer Association met with BATFE and has an update on the proposed 41P regulation. There were 9,504 comments submitted with around 1,000 of them disqualified for vulgarity or irrelevance. However, BATFE is apparently required to address each qualified comment in writing, which is going to take some time. BATFE told ASA it may be over a year before they address the regulation as a result:
http://americansilencerassociation.c...update-on-41p/

CreepyCarbine · February 14, 2014, 04:21 PM

Over 10% of the comments made for this were irrelevant or vulgar.

This aggravates me to no end. This wasn't a facebook page designed by a kid it was the opportunity of like minded people to educate these people on our concerns and attempt to get this ruled in our favor the correct way.

There were comments about "F^$# Obama" and the government is tyrannical and this is so we can get put in FEMA camps...

People who made those comments made us "gun guys" look like nut jobs and helped prove the point of people like Nancy Pelosi and Dianne Feinstein.

They should be emarrased that they couldn't act like an adult for 5 minutes...when it actually counts!

September 27, 2013, 05:54 PM	#77
Venom1956 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2008 Location: WI Posts: 3,656	Could the companies affected by this file something against this new ruling? Since it might damage their income? __________________ E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system.- Yeah I can do that. I guarantee you will know it if a bicyclist hits your house going 1000 mph. -Smaug

December 5, 2013, 01:16 PM	#83
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Wow. Well done, sir. That took a lot of work. Thank you. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

December 8, 2013, 02:01 PM	#85
5.56RifleGuy Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2010 Location: USA Posts: 1,212	I commented today. __________________ Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Last edited by 5.56RifleGuy; December 11, 2013 at 02:24 PM.

December 11, 2013, 03:59 PM	#86
Armorer-at-Law Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 2002 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 465	Updated ATF agenda statement indicates final action on proposed rule expected 06/00/2014: http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAg...&RIN=1140-AA43 __________________ Send lawyers, guns, and money... Armorer-at-Law.com 07FFL/02SOT

December 11, 2013, 04:58 PM	#87
balyon85 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2013 Location: Lochbuie, CO Posts: 140	Re: ATF Extending CLEO Sign Off to Trusts and Corporations I'm still curious how this effects currently submitted forms in process. Doubt my form 1 under a trust will be clear by then.

November 4, 2013, 08:24 PM	#78
tmorone Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2010 Posts: 221	Has anyone been following this? Seems like the thread/ topic died pretty much everywhere online, and it's a pretty serious topic for those looking to purchase NFA items as well as dealers that rely on sales for a living

November 5, 2013, 05:56 AM	#79
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	The comment period ends in early December. Right now, we don't know what will happen until then.

November 5, 2013, 08:02 PM	#80
tmorone Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2010 Posts: 221	Fair enough, thanks

December 3, 2013, 01:16 AM	#81
dustind Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Location: Saint Michael, MN Posts: 47	I am posting this in part to bump it to the top so people will add their comments to the ATF. Below are links to form letters if you would like to use them, and links to where to add your voice to this discussion. www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/11/dean-weingarten/still-time-comment-proposed-regs-suppressors-sbr-nfa-trusts The comment period for the NFA trust issue ends on December 9th. TTAG is trying to get people to comment in our favor. This Proposed Rule Document was issued by the ATF. The linked TTAG article above has lots of good information. Here is the direct link to the comment area at www.regulations.gov Docket Detail ATF-2013-0001. It is amazing how much stuff goes on at any time. Our government is so big that no one can keep track of even major parts of what it does, much less even try to have any real affect on what it does as a whole. In related news HR 3478 Knife Owners’ Protection Act of 2013 would allow people to travel with knives if they are legal where they started and are headed. Just like the FOPA of 1986.

December 5, 2013, 05:24 PM	#84
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	That's a nicely prepared Brief, AAL! I read most of it. It cuts right to the heart of the matter with excellent reasoning. Even though there's less than a 10% chance BATFE will actually consider anything in it, given their track record for blatantly ignoring the law and willy-nilly making up laws however it sees fit, it's still a darned good effort. Better than anything I could come up with. It serves to remind me that preserving our rights is really all the effort we put into it. If we had the effort and support of the voting nation on our side, BATFE would do whatever we wanted them to do. Anyway, I really just wanted to say thank you.

December 11, 2013, 11:34 PM	#89
balyon85 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2013 Location: Lochbuie, CO Posts: 140	My check cleared in September, I haven't called to get a "pending" date, so hope its already hit that status and with no info coming out till 6/2014, I hope thats when the "date" will be.

December 13, 2013, 06:20 PM	#90
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	Comment of the NRA-ILA on Proposed 41P Regulation

December 13, 2013, 07:28 PM	#91
Coach Z Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2011 Location: RI Posts: 795	Anyone have any insight if I submit for a couple new stamps in this limbo period after the comments but before ruling. Finally have some free time and cash and would like to get two more suppressors and two sbr's, one DD. I think that would satisfy all of my NFA "needs" __________________ Love my guns

December 13, 2013, 08:53 PM	#92
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	Nobody knows how the ATF will treat it right now. Which is exciting for those of us with pending forms.

January 15, 2014, 08:12 PM	#95
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	The American Silencer Association met with BATFE and has an update on the proposed 41P regulation. There were 9,504 comments submitted with around 1,000 of them disqualified for vulgarity or irrelevance. However, BATFE is apparently required to address each qualified comment in writing, which is going to take some time. BATFE told ASA it may be over a year before they address the regulation as a result: http://americansilencerassociation.c...update-on-41p/

February 14, 2014, 04:21 PM	#96
CreepyCarbine Junior member Join Date: February 3, 2014 Posts: 8	Over 10% of the comments made for this were irrelevant or vulgar. This aggravates me to no end. This wasn't a facebook page designed by a kid it was the opportunity of like minded people to educate these people on our concerns and attempt to get this ruled in our favor the correct way. There were comments about "F^$# Obama" and the government is tyrannical and this is so we can get put in FEMA camps... People who made those comments made us "gun guys" look like nut jobs and helped prove the point of people like Nancy Pelosi and Dianne Feinstein. They should be emarrased that they couldn't act like an adult for 5 minutes...when it actually counts!

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