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Old September 22, 2013, 09:46 PM   #1
GunXpatriot
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Build it Yourself: Parts kits?

So, let me get right to it. I live in NY. Recently, I've had an interest in more "gunsmith" related endeavors. I've looked around TheHomeGunsmith, mostly just for the sake of knowledge. Now I know, most of the things on that site would be illegal, even more-so in my state, considering the requirement of a permit for a handgun.

I wanted to build the .22 zip gun shown on the site, but of course, I don't want to incriminate myself, so of course, that isn't going to happen. I figured I could do something far more legal, or at least, I think it's legal in NY. Build a 12 gauge pipe gun that is legal overall length. It would be more for the sake of fun, and it doesn't seem to be too involved, even less so than the .22 zip gun. From what I hear, such a gun is completely legal federally, and I believe it's legal here in NY as well, but if anyone knows for a fact it isn't, tell me. I'll research it in-depth myself beforehand, but I'm CERTAINLY not going to incriminate myself because I want to feel like a kitchen gunsmith. Not worth it.

If I lived in Florida and had a milling machine, I would undoubtably build the semi-auto version of the Luty SMG.

Even more interest though, was the Caselman Air Machine Gun. You have an airgun with a high rate of fire and the power of a .32acp. If you haven't seen the videos, here they are, or at least part 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUKxO03HlOM

Alas, I have no milling machine available, nor do I have any milling experience... It's quite tragic, really. LMAO Even still, it is an amazing air gun, no doubt.

However, today I had a thought. Why don't I start out with something that's far simpler... Build my own gun from pre-manufactured parts. Actual gun parts. We all know about building AR-15's, AK's from parts kits, etc, etc. Of course, in my home state of NY, these are all considered "assault weapons", with the exception of one of those really screwey non-pistol grip AR-15's, but to me, it's not worth it...

Anyway, I was wondering if there were parts kits for other types of guns besides these firearms classified as "assault weapons". Am I looking for guns as modular/tried and true as AR's and AK's? Absolutely not. But there has to be some sort of kit out there that would meet my criteria. Right?

Essentially...

1. Don't qualify as an assault weapon under NY state law

2. Be buildable "within reason". Nothing that takes a genious to build. Building an AR-15 doesn't seem too monumental from the videos I've watched, so if it's not too much more difficult than that, no problem.

3. There is actually information out there on how to build it. Or at least, good instructions.

Now while creating your own firearm is far cooler and more, uh, "ingenious", I feel building from a parts kit, or at least, pre-made parts, would be far simpler, and more my current speed. I've also started on a small restoration project for an old rifle, which is going fairly well. Anyway, thanks a lot, and I really hope someone can help me.
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Old September 22, 2013, 10:08 PM   #2
shortwave
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Would you have interest in building a black powder rifle from a kit?

If so, there are kits available that will produce a beautiful rifle if builder takes their time.

Of course, you better check NY's screwy gun laws on that as well.
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Old September 22, 2013, 10:19 PM   #3
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Ah, great!

You know Shortwave, I've actually wanted a black powder rifle for about a year now, but I didn't know where to start.

I would think with the background check, it would be 100% in NY, but I think you were just being sarcastic. Actually, Black Powder Muzzle-loaders aren't even considered Firearms in NY, are they? I'm actually asking this for my (unfortunately) a felon, grandfather. Wrong place, wrong time, wrong crowd, involved a truckload of food... ANYWAY, I don't think they are, so he might be good to go. Always wanted to go hunting with the old guy, but he was barred from firearms, and we were reluctant about bows...

Anyway, any particular kit(s) you could, or would, recommend?

Last edited by GunXpatriot; September 22, 2013 at 10:24 PM.
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Old September 22, 2013, 10:34 PM   #4
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If you live in upstate NY and not NYC, then the homemade shotgun or any non-AW longarm would be entirely legal to make with no permits or registrations.
The muzzleloader would be completely legal since, like you said, it's not a firearm. Not sure about your grandpa though. It may not be a firearm but it is still a deadly weapon, don't know if that counts when it comes to felons.

Not sure of any AWB-legal parts kits. Certainly not ones that would be particularly easy to make.

Though I've always wanted to make a pistol caliber carbine tube-gun. Like the Luty designs, but semi auto ofcourse. I, like you don't have access to mills and lathes, so simply adapt actual firearm parts for the parts I can't make myself. Like an AR-15 FCG, firing pin, mags, barrel and other parts. So you still DIY the parts you can and just buy the ones you can't.
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Old September 22, 2013, 10:56 PM   #5
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Nickel... Are you really living in Brooklyn? And like guns? I feel bad for you... I mean, I lived in LI, and now upstate NY, and we still have to jump through all kinds of nonsense with NY laws... You guys in NYC though, Jesus...

lol now that I'm looking at the NY legal stock, it's actually pretty badass, even looking as silly as it does... May do that in the future XD

Yeah, that seems like a pain though, mixing and matching. Even still, it's interesting to see what people can come up with, and I have. Their guns look monstrous, but they work, no doubt.
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Old September 22, 2013, 11:15 PM   #6
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Below are a few different places you can shop for a b/p rifle kit

They are also available through Cabela's as well as Bass Pro

A couple suggestions:

Most important would be to check the laws(Federal and NY) pertaining to being a felon and handling of a muzzle loader.

As far as kits goes, I would shop via the internet and see what style of m/l I liked.
There are matchlocks, flintlock, caplock etc., double or single set triggers and there are many different styles of longrifles or carbines to choose from. Plus styles I'm forgetting.

Lastly, I would open a thread here on TFL in the Black Powder forum and get more info. There are many years of knowledge over there and the guys will be more than happy to answer any questions you have. I seen pics of some builds on there that are nothing short of works of art.

PS...Tell Gramps I still do rolling stop at redlights in my rig after dark in NYC.

Last edited by shortwave; September 23, 2013 at 12:08 AM.
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Old September 22, 2013, 11:19 PM   #7
GunXpatriot
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Oh, btw, anyone know of anyone on TFL that has actually built a Luty, er, "sub gun" or Caselman AMG? Would be kind of cool if I could find oneone who's taken the time to do such a thing(s).
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Old September 22, 2013, 11:58 PM   #8
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Many years ago Popular Mechanics had an article about building a matchlock, using standard galvanized pipe and scrap metal. Didn't need special tools either.

Might be on the internet somewhere.
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Old September 23, 2013, 10:16 AM   #9
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Sarco in New Jersey/Pennsylvania sells 1911 receivers and slides, with or without parts kits to complete an entire, functional 1911. Since the original 1911 magazine held only seven rounds (and these magazines are still available), it's fully legal even in New York state.

http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/451911auto...lessframe.aspx
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Old September 23, 2013, 11:03 AM   #10
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Yea NYC is pretty ridiculous. Worst in the nation I'd say. Though things get alot easier if you don't make it a sticking point to follow every single law to the letter, but I won't get into that

Luckily, I landed in the union ironworkers. So once my apprenticeship is done, I can just pack my bags and have a job waiting most anywhere I go in the country. So that takes care of one of the most difficult parts of moving.
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Old September 23, 2013, 01:23 PM   #11
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Regarding muzzleloaders, AFAIK unless the laws have been changed, federally a felon can have and use muzzleloaders, even cap and ball revolvers. Check with the BATFE. Whether the state one lives in has tighter restriction, I don't know. Some states restrict to muzzle loading rifles and shotguns but forbid the handguns to felons. Probably get a quick answer from your city and state law enforcement agencies.
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Old September 23, 2013, 06:49 PM   #12
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul B.
Probably get a quick answer from your city and state law enforcement agencies.
Quick, but probably incorrect.
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Old September 23, 2013, 07:21 PM   #13
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New unfired barrel and furniture from ebay, Davis double set triggers, L& R Lock, and stock from Pecatonica River Long Rifle supply, cm4 grade:

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Old September 23, 2013, 08:19 PM   #14
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That's one beautiful rifle asmith. Love the stock.

Know you're a proud owner.

Congrats!
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Old September 23, 2013, 08:30 PM   #15
GunXpatriot
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Agreed, that rifle is incredible!

But um... Anything, uh, besides muzzleloaders, guys? Also, thanks for the links, Shortwave.

Aguila Blanca, that certainly sounds like a cool project, but... I don't have a pistol permit. I mean, I'm not 21, but I wouldn't want it just for the fact that I'd have to register them, quite honestly. SOON I will be in FL. *grins*
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Old September 23, 2013, 09:18 PM   #16
Aguila Blanca
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Apologies. I didn't notice that you are in New York.
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Old September 23, 2013, 09:27 PM   #17
asmith
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PSA has california compliant, but I don't know bout NY....

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...ifle-kits.html
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Old September 23, 2013, 10:51 PM   #18
GunXpatriot
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Well... I could go this route...


I love how comical it is, how we have to get around these things. Wish there was a better-looking, maybe skeletonized alternative to that stock. Guess not...

I'll be honest, my post was fairly long, but I did ask if maybe you guys knew about a gun that wasn't an AR-15 or AK47/74, etc. I mean, lets be real. Off the top of your head, would people really be building muzzleloaders? But the parts are out there...

While it was more to not have to worry about NY unSAFE act, it was kind of to have something unique at the same time. Anyone?
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Old September 24, 2013, 11:24 AM   #19
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Quote:
Off the top of your head, would people really be building muzzleloaders?
You may be surprised.
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Old September 24, 2013, 12:08 PM   #20
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Actually, you can legally build all sorts of gun in NY, they just have to meet the same requirements of any other gun of the type.

You can buy a parts kit to build your own 1911. The frame is considered the firearm and would have to be registered on your handgun permit and go through an FFL.

You can build you own rifle, the action is the firearm and would have to go through an FFL. You could be really ambitious and build your own action, but that's asking a lot.

Muzzleloaders, a fair number of guys build their own. They're essentially unregulated and can be shipped right to your door. You can even own a blackpowder revolver without a permit... you just can't load/fire it.
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Old September 25, 2013, 07:59 PM   #21
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Well I'm certainly thinking of a muzzleloader right now. Also, it seems from what you guys have given, that parts kits besides muzzleloaders, AR's, AK's, aren't really out there. Kind of disappointing.

What do you guys think of that ridiculous non-pistol grip stock? Anyone know of something similar that is um... Better looking? I can't seem to find anything.

You know I think if that whole stock kind of wrapped around the buffer tube, etc, it could actually look pretty badass, but maybe that's just me. Imagine something SCAR-ish. It would probably take plenty of time at the drawing board to come up with such a thing...

:P
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Old September 25, 2013, 08:05 PM   #22
Aguila Blanca
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Kits are out there, but most of them won't be legal in your state.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c...aspx?a=1510520

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c...aspx?a=1030541

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c....aspx?a=650811

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c....aspx?a=862723
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Old September 25, 2013, 11:37 PM   #23
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Ironically, the 10/22 Gatling gun, is probably the only thing there that would be legal. Whether it accepts the regular 10 round mags is really irrelevant, 7 legal rounds for each mag is just kind of... I dunno, seems like a total waste.
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Old September 27, 2013, 04:26 PM   #24
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Well there are kits for a wide variety of guns out there. HK G3s and MP5s (or semi variants of those) STENs UZIs MACs. The problem is few of those besides the AKs and ARs can be build with the tools found in your typical toolbox and even fewer would be legal in NY.

Regarding that AR stock. It has to be goofy looking. If the stock connected to the buffer tube like a thumbhole stock. It would be...well a thumbhole stock which is still a banned feature under the NY AWB same as a pistol grip ( I believe, definitely in the 5 boroughs, not 100% about the rest of the state.)
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Old October 4, 2013, 02:20 PM   #25
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From what I can see, STENS seem to be good to go for NY, features-wise... I'd just need a 10 round magazine, and a good video on how to assemble one. Because the gun in itself is cool, being 9mm, etc. I wanted a Sub-2000, but I guess this isn't a bad alternative. Granted, 10 round magazines might be a pain to get...

Now the Sten with this stock...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sten

That doesn't fold, does it? Doesn't seem like it, but I'm seeing others that look like they may fold and I also seen a pic of one that does, but this one doesn't appear to be able to... I dunno, I'll have to look into this more, but it's close to something I'd like, definitely.

Uh, but off-hand, what "annoying" things would I need? Because like you said, building an AR (and I guess, an AK) seem pretty simple in the grand scheme of things... But I can't imagine a STEN being that difficult... Right?

And yeah, I guess it would be a "thumbhole" stock, but I dunno, there's gotta be a better design choice than that goofy thing. Problem is, if I ordered a lower receiver, would I have to register it right then and there because they assume I'm building an "Aircraft anihilating organ grinding hypercannon" Assault weapon? Because it's not like it'd have the features, YET... This is all so convoluted and f'ed up, it's ridiculous...

Any of my NY brothers (and sisters), please, we have to change this... It's certainly possible if we all band together... I thought they were suing NY state over this, but I never really heard about that, the law being unconstitutional, etc, etc... I dunno, there's gotta be something we can do about this BS.
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