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Old September 13, 2013, 05:41 PM   #76
M1ke10191
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I haven't been following CO's isues much since I'm too busy dealing with NY's but this is definitely good news. Hopefully this spreads to all the "progressive" states.
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Old September 13, 2013, 07:23 PM   #77
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Quote:
The recall petition had more signatures from D and I (combined) than from R voters

...and there's a lesson there. We ignore allies from the other side of the aisle at our peril.
Kind of goes to what I have stated a few times. The belief that we need gun control doesnt sit well with people who live in high crime areas. These areas happen to be prodominantly Democrat voters.

Colorado proved that people don't like intrusions by the government in thier life.

Read this the other day>>>http://www.nationaljournal.com/domes...wrong-20130321

IMHO:
People say they want new regulations, but they they don't trust it's motives of the government. I for one am glad they don't trust them either.

IMHO:
Give the vote to the people on a national ballot on the most recent round of federal gun legislation bills and you might be surprised how many that want new regulations would have voted against them.

Thank you Colorado Voters....
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Old September 13, 2013, 11:58 PM   #78
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I think Giron's "meltdown" on the CNN video probably illustrates one reason she lost. In her arrogance, she refuses to understand that a substantial number of people just weren't with her on the gun control issue.
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Old September 14, 2013, 12:01 AM   #79
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she refuses to understand that a substantial number of people just weren't with her on the gun control issue.
If she hadn't slammed the door in their faces and ignored their concerns at town hall meetings, that might not have been the case. She probably thought that the money from Bloomberg and various donors would sway things in her favor.
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Old September 14, 2013, 04:32 AM   #80
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Now that Giron's political career is derailed her only option to stay in the action is to get a juicy appointment. Maybe she will be appointed undersecretary for ATF? Never underestimate the opposition!

Hopefully this is the last we hear from her and will silence a good many other gun grabbers from feeling so bold to ignore the public will AND Constitution.
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Old September 14, 2013, 07:01 AM   #81
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I have seen a lot of Giron on the tube lately. She keeps talking about voter suppression being the reason for her ouster. Apparently, it has not registered with her that many who support the Bill of Rights do NOT subscribe to her views. . .and did something about it. Way to go Colorado!
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Old September 14, 2013, 10:00 AM   #82
Brian Pfleuger
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Anti-gun politicians recalled in Colorado!

Quote:
Originally Posted by alan View Post
Brian:

It's been a very long time since I lived in New York (NYC actually). That having been said, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think New York State has provision for the recall of elected officials. The same would apply to New Jersey, mentioned by another poster.
No, we don't have any recall provision but we can vote the snakes out of office.
It's sort of self-fulfilling though. They were already known as anti-gun before they were elected and we either didn't care or the vote from the city overwhelms our vote anyway. When the next vote comes around we might suddenly decide to care but it won't matter because we'll be overwhelmed by the city vote anyway.
The people in the city (the vast majority of them, there are friends there but not many) most certainly not only don't care about gun rights but are openly hostile.
From a state-wide voting perspective, rural and suburban upstate is irrelevant.
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Old September 14, 2013, 11:50 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Pfleuger
From a state-wide voting perspective, rural and suburban upstate is irrelevant.
And this is why the Founding Fathers originally set up the Constitution so that Representatives to Congress were elected by popular vote, but Senators were elected by their respective state legislatures.

I have never understood why "we" (our forbears) thought it was a good idea to change that so that Senators are also elected by popular vote.
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Old September 14, 2013, 12:04 PM   #84
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I have never understood why "we" (our forbears) thought it was a good idea to change that so that Senators are also elected by popular vote.
IMHO, it was changed to remove the states' input in the federal system. Repealing the 17th amendment gave more power to the federal government thus bypassing the "several states" and the power they had completely. Also IMHO, that's when we started down the slippery slope we find ourselves on now. A central federal government running a show the people and the states we supposed to run.
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Old September 14, 2013, 01:20 PM   #85
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Quote:
She keeps talking about voter suppression being the reason for her ouster.
To me, this seems obvious, and true. They couldn't suppress enough of the voters who wanted her OUT!
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Old September 14, 2013, 08:22 PM   #86
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They (Morse, Giron, and others) are the true suppressors, about 5,500 people showed up at the capitol to testify against these gun laws, Morse, the now recalled Senate president only allowed 90 minutes total for debate, that made a sizable number of people very angry.
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Old September 14, 2013, 09:20 PM   #87
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It's impossible for me to use the term "gun control" in the context of laws.
There is no such thing. The hand that is on the gun, on the trigger controls the gun.
And if that guy just got out of prison, or is a serious drug user, or dealer, etc., no rational person can believe a law will affect his behavior.
So what they are up to is not "gun control" but "legal citizen control".
Anyway, it's some minor good news from Colorado.
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Old September 14, 2013, 11:20 PM   #88
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These are my folks (Pueblo Colorado). I am a proud graduate/survivor of Pueblo East High School.
This is where my family has been since before Colorado was a state. They are at their core moderate, even conservative people who have a strong dislike for over the top political behavior of ANY type .

We didn't need MLK's "I have a dream" speech, we had the steel mill closing to teach us tolerance of each other. We learned to hang together so we didn't hang separately out of need when 60% of the wealth in the community disappeared overnight in the late 70's early 80's.

Just because Pueblo people tend to vote for people with a D next to their name don't be fooled, these are NOT anti-gun people. They may be one of the better examples for the don't get hung up on Republican vs Democrat argument.
When you are elected in Pueblo you are elected to be a moderating common sense influence at the capitol. If you act contrary to that mandate it tends to make your constituency pretty unhappy with you. As Angela Giron has now found out the hard way.

I'm rather proud of my home town, and I'm feeling a little homesick right now.
If you'll excuse me, I have a strong desire to log on to Career Builder and see if there are any openings in my field down there as we speak.
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Old September 15, 2013, 10:17 PM   #89
alan
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Brian Pfleuger wrote, also quoting my response:
Staff

Originally Posted by alan View Post
Brian:

It's been a very long time since I lived in New York (NYC actually). That having been said, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think New York State has provision for the recall of elected officials. The same would apply to New Jersey, mentioned by another poster.
No, we don't have any recall provision but we can vote the snakes out of office.
It's sort of self-fulfilling though. They were already known as anti-gun before they were elected and we either didn't care or the vote from the city overwhelms our vote anyway. When the next vote comes around we might suddenly decide to care but it won't matter because we'll be overwhelmed by the city vote anyway.
The people in the city (the vast majority of them, there are friends there but not many) most certainly not only don't care about gun rights but are openly hostile.
From a state-wide voting perspective, rural and suburban upstate is irrelevant.
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Brian:

The "city" vote, respecting state-wide elections, for instance governor, might be over be overwhelming, but members of the state house, aka state assembly run from much smaller districts, correct me if I'm wrong. As to people from rural areas, known to be anti-gun who were elected anyhow, possibly people who should have been paying attention weren't, a fault that brings pain to many others. Maybe next time, as you noted, things might be different..

Last edited by alan; September 15, 2013 at 10:24 PM.
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Old September 16, 2013, 12:48 AM   #90
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Governor Hickenloper tried to play down the importance of the vote today, claiming "outside money coming in is generally not welcome." Does he mean the ~$350,000 from the NRA to support the recalls or the ~$350,00 coming from Michael Bloomberg to oppose them? I guess the $2 million in other contributions to Morse and Giron doesn't count as "outside money" either.

In the weeks immediately following the Newtown shooting, politicians felt unprecedented pressure to get on the Guilt and Shame Bandwagon. They were assured that Bloomberg's money would keep them safe. They were coerced into believing that a vote for gun safety was the only safe vote.

That is emphatically no longer the case, and here's hoping they're smart enough to see that.
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Old September 16, 2013, 08:41 AM   #91
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Arguments from the antis on this topic show denial or delusion in many cases.

This Op-Ed appeared on CNN yesterday (and I am shocked! Shocked! to see a hyperbolic and dishonest anti-gun Op-Ed on CNN!): http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/13/opinio...html?hpt=op_t1

The truly appalling thing is that Donohue is a professor at Stanford Law (according to the bio blurb that accompanies the article).
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Old September 16, 2013, 11:08 AM   #92
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Fairly neutral analysis of the current situation:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/16/us...e.html?hp&_r=0

Research suggests that the best predictor of gun attitudes is geographic. East Coast (NY, MA, CT, RI), CA and urban vs. not urban. It is stronger than other political variables.

We shall see how this all plays out. It may be that folks will make rational decisions and extreme polemics of either side won't work. I am amused by Bloomberg being seen as a flop - as I mocked him to the TX House.
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Old September 16, 2013, 11:41 AM   #93
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Only "fairly" neutral; the NYT bias in support of stricter gun control is evident in their choices of phrases, and in their equating the NRA (4 million citizen members) with MAIG (1000 politicians funded and led by a billionaire).
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Old September 16, 2013, 11:59 AM   #94
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From the CNN article:
"First, it undermines our democracy when voters act based on false and misleading views..."

You gotta laugh at the irony in that statement.
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Old September 16, 2013, 12:31 PM   #95
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Quote:
The truly appalling thing is that Donohue is a professor at Stanford Law
Not really. The Joyce Foundation has been pumping money into Stanford's law school to fund gun-control "studies" for two decades. Donohue is one of their biggest allies. He has a particular grudge with John Lott and his work.

That he's coming out of the woodwork now doesn't surprise me. That he's using such intemperate and inflammatory language does. The guy's usually smarter than that.
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Old September 16, 2013, 04:43 PM   #96
alan
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MLeake wrote:


Arguments from the antis on this topic show denial or delusion in many cases.

This Op-Ed appeared on CNN yesterday (and I am shocked! Shocked! to see a hyperbolic and dishonest anti-gun Op-Ed on CNN!): http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/13/opinio...html?hpt=op_t1

The truly appalling thing is that Donohue is a professor at Stanford Law (according to the bio blurb that accompanies the article).

I'm given to wonder, tongue in cheek, MLeake's tongue might be so situated also, as to the following respecting the above comments:

1. It it really "shocking" to find anti gun drivel on television, particularly on CNN?

2. Is it really "shocking" to find anti gun diatribes authored by an acacdemic, who might well have spent to many years in cloistered Ivory Towers, to few years out in the wind, the rain the snow of the real world.

3. Clicking on the link brings forth Page Not Found.
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Old September 16, 2013, 05:06 PM   #97
MLeake
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alan, have you never seen Casablanca? Think, Claude Rains.

Meanwhile, I just checked the link, and it still worked for me. Apparently it did for Tom Servo, as well, so perhaps you are having some other connectivity issue.
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Old September 16, 2013, 06:08 PM   #98
alan
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MLeake:

I have seen Casablanca more times than I can remember. As to Claude Rains, who stole just about every scene he appeared in, point taken.

I will try the link again. The link worked this time.

Last edited by alan; September 16, 2013 at 06:17 PM.
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