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Old September 11, 2013, 07:06 AM   #26
bikerbill
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Recall being stopped in Arkansas a few summers ago, with a Texas CHL and my PM9 along for the ride, secured in a door pocket for easy access but hidden from view. The officer never asked to see the gun, but invited me into his cruiser to discuss my choice of handgun and whether it might make a good backup. Very interesting experience -- and NO ticket ...
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Old September 11, 2013, 01:18 PM   #27
colbad
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Since the FA is specific to the CCW I fail to see the problem with him asking to see both. The problem I see is the way the firearm was handled by the owner.

I would have removed the FA, removed the mag, ejected the round and handed him the FA with slide locked back like a professional.
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Old September 11, 2013, 02:07 PM   #28
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What Colbad said. I would have likely have done the same if I was in the same situation.
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Old September 11, 2013, 02:14 PM   #29
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Sounded from the OP's description (latch) that he had a tip-up barrel Beretta, and he tipped the barrel up, taking the gun out of battery.
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Old September 11, 2013, 03:41 PM   #30
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Grizz, I am glad that you respect peoples' rights. Here is the way it has been explained to me by Florida Carry, Inc. and their lawyers.

Open carry is banned. Flat out banned. It has exceptions. These exceptions being on your place of business or property, hunting, fishing, target shooting, testing firearms for a company, and some oddball exceptions.

Typically, all rights not explicitly illegal are held by the citizen. In this case, open carry is explicitly illegal unless you're covered under one of the exceptions.

There is no exception to allow someone to open carry on your property. Hunting, fishing, covered under another exception? Totally OK. Hanging out with a Coca-Cola in their driveway with your gun on your hip? Not OK. Legally, a friend can't even bring a rifle inside and show it to you in your own house. I don't know that there have ever been any prosecutions per se, but that's the wording of the law.

In this case, you don't need to find a statute making it illegal (790.06 does that), you need to find a statute listing a legal exception.
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Old September 11, 2013, 06:46 PM   #31
allaroundhunter
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This did NOT sit well with me.

Dakota, I think you are misinterpreting a large amount of that law. Not sure I would trust those lawyers if that is exactly what they are telling you, either.

I have a friend who is an attorney in FL. I'm going to try to get in contact with him to double check on this.

After reading through 790.06, I am fairly certain that you have been misinformed on this topic.

Quote:
A license issued under this section does not authorize any person to openly carry a handgun or carry a concealed weapon or firearm into:
1. Any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05;
2. Any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station;
3. Any detention facility, prison, or jail;
4. Any courthouse;
5. Any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom;
6. Any polling place;
7. Any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district;
8. Any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof;
9. Any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms;
10. Any elementary or secondary school facility or administration building;
11. Any career center;
12. Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;
13. Any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile;
14. The inside of the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or
15. Any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.
(b) A person licensed under this section shall not be prohibited from carrying or storing a firearm in a vehicle for lawful purposes.

Nothing in that makes it illegal to openly carry a firearm on private property as long as it doesn't qualify as one of the above 'prohibited places'.

But again, I am going to double check with someone more qualified than myself.

Last edited by allaroundhunter; September 11, 2013 at 06:55 PM.
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Old September 11, 2013, 08:10 PM   #32
MLeake
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allaroundhunter, you linked to Florida law on concealed carry. Florida is not an open carry state; recent attempts to pass open carry were watered down - all they got was decriminalization of brief, inadvertent display.
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Old September 11, 2013, 08:15 PM   #33
dakota.potts
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My bad. I have pointed to the wrong statute. It is the statute banning open carry.

Quote:
1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device.

(2) A person may openly carry, for purposes of lawful self-defense:

(a) A self-defense chemical spray.

(b) A nonlethal stun gun or remote stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device which does not fire a dart or projectile and is designed solely for defensive purposes.
Here we have the law finding open carry patently illegal. Below are the exceptions in which it is legal.

Quote:
3) LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

(a) Members of the Militia, National Guard, Florida State Defense Force, Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, organized reserves, and other armed forces of the state and of the United States, when on duty, when training or preparing themselves for military duty, or while subject to recall or mobilization;

(b) Citizens of this state subject to duty in the Armed Forces under s. 2, Art. X of the State Constitution, under chapters 250 and 251, and under federal laws, when on duty or when training or preparing themselves for military duty;

(c) Persons carrying out or training for emergency management duties under chapter 252;

(d) Sheriffs, marshals, prison or jail wardens, police officers, Florida highway patrol officers, game wardens, revenue officers, forest officials, special officers appointed under the provisions of chapter 354, and other peace and law enforcement officers and their deputies and assistants and full-time paid peace officers of other states and of the Federal Government who are carrying out official duties while in this state;

(e) Officers or employees of the state or United States duly authorized to carry a concealed weapon;

(f) Guards or messengers of common carriers, express companies, armored car carriers, mail carriers, banks, and other financial institutions, while actually employed in and about the shipment, transportation, or delivery of any money, treasure, bullion, bonds, or other thing of value within this state;

(g) Regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive weapons from the United States or from this state, or regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for target, skeet, or trap shooting, while at or going to or from shooting practice; or regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for modern or antique firearms collecting, while such members are at or going to or from their collectors' gun shows, conventions, or exhibits;

(h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;

(i) A person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of any such person while engaged in the lawful course of such business;

(j) A person firing weapons for testing or target practice under safe conditions and in a safe place not prohibited by law or going to or from such place;

(k) A person firing weapons in a safe and secure indoor range for testing and target practice;

(l) A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person's manual possession;

(m) A person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a secure wrapper, concealed or otherwise, from the place of purchase to his or her home or place of business or to a place of repair or back to his or her home or place of business;

(n) A person possessing arms at his or her home or place of business;

(o) Investigators employed by the several public defenders of the state, while actually carrying out official duties, provided such investigators:
There is NO exception for someone to carry openly on somebody else's property even with written permission, unless under subsections (a) through (o) , such as a hunting expedition
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Old September 11, 2013, 08:45 PM   #34
allaroundhunter
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This did NOT sit well with me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MLeake View Post
allaroundhunter, you linked to Florida law on concealed carry. Florida is not an open carry state; recent attempts to pass open carry were watered down - all they got was decriminalization of brief, inadvertent display.
I just looked at what Dakota linked because he said it outlawed open carry. Nothing in his linked section of the penal code outlawed OC on private property.

But as I said, I will double check with a friend who is a much better source of info than myself.
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Old September 11, 2013, 08:48 PM   #35
allaroundhunter
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This did NOT sit well with me.

Now, I see what you mean about carrying on other's property. However, OCing, and taking a gun to a friend's house for show and tell are two very different things, and I have a hard time believing that the latter is against the law.
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Old September 11, 2013, 09:45 PM   #36
dakota.potts
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That would depend on legal definition and could get dicey, but I stand by my statement not to make assumptions about what's legal just because it's your property. If something is patently illegal, being your property doesn't make a difference. Doesn't matter if it's building a Fight Club in the basement, cocaine, or open carry of a firearm. The law sees it all the same way.
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Old September 11, 2013, 11:43 PM   #37
LIBERTY
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Interesting subject! It all goes to show that there are way too many gun laws and way too many cops that are badge heavy. ANYONE should be able to carry a gun concealed or open with absolutely no laws concerning it at all!!
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Old September 12, 2013, 06:42 AM   #38
grizz223
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dakota.potts

You have to understand that there is no way that any prosecutor is going to touch a case where someone is carrying openly on their own property unless they were brandishing and being threating to someone else. How laws are enforced is much different than how they are written. Also unless someone calls us about you carrying openly we are not just driving around looking for gun crimes at least not in my county. We have enough to do with the bad guys now those guys we will bust every time we get a hint that they are carrying but they are convicted felons and for the most part are stupid. This makes my much job easier.
Anyway I understand your caution but I would ask your local sheriff how he perceives your view of that law.
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Old September 13, 2013, 12:07 PM   #39
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Quote:
There is NO exception for someone to carry openly on somebody else's property even with written permission, unless under subsections (a) through (o) , such as a hunting expedition
So the employees of a business cannot open carry even if the owner wants them to do so unless they are military, LEO, legal guards, etc. etc. etc.

That is interesting.
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Old September 13, 2013, 02:45 PM   #40
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Quote:
Opinions?
Move one state east to Arizona.




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Old September 13, 2013, 06:37 PM   #41
dakota.potts
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Double Naught, see subsection (n). A person carrying at his home or place of business may carry open or concealed. A place of business has been found as any place a person does business (owner or employee), including an unpaid secretary who had specific duties every day at his town hall.
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Old September 14, 2013, 08:39 AM   #42
Double Naught Spy
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So any guests on my property, therefore are now unpaid employees and hence may carry openly as per the law. Cool.
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Old September 14, 2013, 05:55 PM   #43
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My Kentucky CCDW License is good for any Deadly Weapon(s) that I want to carry. They don't have to be listed on the License.
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Old September 14, 2013, 06:33 PM   #44
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I believe this particular thread has run its course.
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