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Old September 5, 2013, 04:18 PM   #1
3.Shot.Group.
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Winchester 230 gr FMJ White Box

Does this stuff have a thinner case on it than most ammo?

I fired 42 rounds of it through my Springfield Mil Spec. It seems like it expands more in the chamber, Some of it, especially the last round in the mag, doesn't want to eject as well, and they land just a foot or two beside me.

I actually had a couple that failed to eject at all, and the very last round I fired the brass flew straight up and back and landed in my mag holder. lol

Could this be the ammo, or maybe something going on with the ejector?
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Old September 5, 2013, 06:03 PM   #2
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Winchester white box has always done well with my 1911s, (on average, 2.5" gps at 25 yds from rest): Currently in the stable are: two Rugers, a WWll Remington Rand, two Gold Cup Series 70's, a pair of Colt Commanders, and a Smith first generation. It's good ammunition, I"d check my ejector, extractor, and make sure the chamber is cleaned between shooting sessions. 1911's will not shoot indefinitely, I'd opine that one hundred rounds is about the limit, and that's based on 50+ years experience with the old war-horse. Best of luck, Rod
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Old September 5, 2013, 06:25 PM   #3
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White Box 230's is my go-to factory ammo for general shooting. I buy it for the brass. To me, if anything, the case seems thicker than most - especially over Federal or Remington. Admittedly, the "thickness" I am feeling when resizing or flaring the brass during the prep process could also be the difference in annealment, and not actual case thickness. At any rate, I like the stuff - for both shooting and reloading the brass.
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Old September 5, 2013, 06:33 PM   #4
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It's always worked well in my 1911s.
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Old September 5, 2013, 06:56 PM   #5
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Have you tried any other brand of ammunition in your pistol?

If so, what have your results been?
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Old September 5, 2013, 07:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.shot.group.
Does this stuff have a thinner case on it than most ammo?
Fortunately for you, other inquiring minds have wondered the same thing, and one of the reloading gurus on the M1911.ORG forum has done a lot of measuring ... and then kindly posted up the results as a Google Docs spreadsheet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...EaWdWWlE#gid=0

Regular old Winchester (the "white box," USA stuff) seems to be near the top of the heap for wall thickness. That's ALL I reload, except when I'm putting together ammo for a competition where I know I won't get to police up my own brass.
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Old September 5, 2013, 07:29 PM   #7
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I just cleaned this thing last night, even removed the firing pin and extractor, didn't clean the tunnel(just blew it out), but did everything else pretty well.

Do you think maybe it's because my gun isn't broken in(about 135 rounds so far) so the chamber is a little tight on these thicker cases?

Of course some of the rounds might have had a little CLP on them since I took 50 rounds from the 100 rnd box and put them into a 50 rnd tray just after cleaning the gun. I fired some of the same stuff yesterday without any issues.

Other types of ammo worked just fine as far as the feed/extraction cycle goes, but I didn't get any CLP on those.
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Old September 5, 2013, 09:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
especially the last round in the mag, doesn't want to eject as well, and they land just a foot or two beside me.
Is this the same gun that the sights are off on it or the bushing barrel fit is off and you have only put 135 rounds through it?

Dude, go shoot it. Put lots of ammo through it. Don't sweat the small stuff just yet. Break it in and break yourself in with it. If it fires, ejects, loads and is accurate, shoot it. Where the spent case lands isn't an issue.
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Old September 5, 2013, 09:14 PM   #9
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.

The Winchesters worked perfectly in my current gun, a Remington 1911R1, as well as in the Springer Champion I sold to buy the Remmy.


.
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Old September 5, 2013, 09:29 PM   #10
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Spent casings not ejecting isn't exactly small stuff, it's a stoppage, stoppage not good.

Did I mention this is a 1911, they're not supposed to do that.

"Just put more rounds through it" I don't know if that's going to cure it, but I'll definitely try it.

I'm wondering what I can do to it right now to stop it from doing stuff like this and just keep shooting, and hit where I aim it. Maybe if I put the black grips on it.
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Old September 5, 2013, 10:31 PM   #11
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WWB is my preferred range ammo in any caliber. In several thousands of rounds, I only had one issue with a 9mm round.

I found the problem when I went to load it in the mag. When the bullet was seated into the casing, the lip of the casing caught the jacket and peeled it upwards. It never would have even chambered had I not caught it.
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Old September 5, 2013, 11:03 PM   #12
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The reason I ask the previous questions is an attempt to fault isolate the problem. Is it just the white box ammo doing this with your pistol or had you not tried any other type ammo in your pistol yet. It might be happening with just white box or with everything else too.

I have read where other shooters have fault isolated particular ammo their pistol does not shoot well and simply does not use that ammo and chooses an ammo he or she has confidence in for their pistol.

I reload and as long as I do my part on the bench, all my firearms are happy shooting my reloads.
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Old September 5, 2013, 11:55 PM   #13
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I've shot other stuff that ejected well, but I did notice every time there were a couple that didn't seem to eject as far away, most get tossed about 2 or 3 feet back and 5 or 6 feet to the right. Some only went about 2 feet or so to the right, but I didn't think much of it at the time.

I fired some of the WWB yesterday, and it ejected the same as all the other with most of it being tossed well clear, and a couple going short.

Today; However, I had a few casing that failed to eject, they just ended up sitting on top of the mag, they were the last round in the mag as I recall.

I think I didn't have much of this until I fired the Hornady Steel Match, it has a steel case. Matter of fact, I was looking at the feed issue I had with Hornady while I was cleaning the gun tonight. I put one of the Steel match rounds in a mag and inserted it into the mag well while I had the slide off of the gun, and tried to strip it off the mag with my thumb to see how it went up the feed ramp. I couldn't get it to strip like I can other(brass cased) rounds. It looks like the edge of the steel case hangs up, where as the brass case, being more malleable, would strip off and feed.

I'm thinking the steel cased Hornady might have stripped some of the ejectors hook off causing it to not grab the hulls reliably.

Or it could be a bad extractor, or low powered ammo. I did notice that I wasn't feeling the recoil as much today, but I chalked it up to "getting used to it".
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Old September 6, 2013, 11:28 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.Shot.Group.
Do you think maybe it's because my gun isn't broken in(about 135 rounds so far) so the chamber is a little tight on these thicker cases?
Not a chance. Winchester USA ammo is well within SAAMI specs for dimensions. Any "extra" thickness in the case walls is internal, not due to a larger external diameter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.Shot.Group.
Today; However, I had a few casing that failed to eject, they just ended up sitting on top of the mag, they were the last round in the mag as I recall.
You have an extractor tension problem, or a magazine spring problem, or a combination of the two. Start with the extractor. The only way a case can be left in the gun is if the extractor hook slips off the case rim before extraction is complete. I once had a 9mm Colt Commander that did that. After much weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth, it was determined that the pistol had been fitted by some previous owner with a .45 extractor. Once a correct extractor was installed and fitted, the gun has been flawless.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; September 6, 2013 at 11:33 AM.
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Old September 6, 2013, 12:14 PM   #15
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I'm beginning to think it is the extractor, after reading several articles about extractor problems.

I'll adjust it and see if that solves the problem.

Thanks
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Old September 6, 2013, 12:42 PM   #16
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The only issue I've ever had with WWB .45ACP ammo was availability. Since I reload, that isn't a factor any more. But I can't remember ever having any functioning issues with it. It loaded, it chambered, it fired, it ejected and chambered the next round till the mag went empty, then locked the slide. Just what ammo should do. But then again, so has most every other .45 ammo I've ever used with the exception of some of the shoddy Russian stuff I used to occasionally buy back in the day.
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Old September 6, 2013, 01:11 PM   #17
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I adjusted the extractor a little, I fired one mag through it and they all loaded and ejected properly. I'll know for sure the next time I put 40 or 50 rounds through it.

@csmsss,

Did that Russian ammo have steel casings, or anything harder than brass? I ran some Hornady Steel Match through mine and it didn't want to feed the first round, because the steel case was hanging on the frame at the bottom of the feed ramp. The rest of the rounds fed good, just the first one would hang, probably because I wasn't releasing the slide hard enough and it didn't have enough momentum to shear the edge off of the steel case.
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Old September 7, 2013, 12:08 PM   #18
In memory of dad
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Springfield

Had one and it was stiff from the jump and needed a breaking in that's for sure. I even replaced the recoil spring in it which helped a lot! Shoot the snot out of it! It will loosen up
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Old September 7, 2013, 04:59 PM   #19
3.Shot.Group.
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It was the extractor.
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Old September 9, 2013, 11:06 AM   #20
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@3shot - honestly, that was many years ago, and I cannot remember for sure (but I suspect it was brass). All I know is they would routinely stovepipe (you could expect at least one per magazine) on ejection and were dirty as you can imagine.
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