The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Hunt

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 5, 2013, 04:34 PM   #1
Beretta686
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 11, 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 731
5.7x28 for hunting?

I was out playing with my FN Five-Seven and someone told me that they use one of them for hunting. I figured they're shooting rabbits or squirrels with it, but they claimed to use it on pigs. Yet, I'm a bit skeptical as it seems way under powered for hunting a pig.

Has anyone on here every used the 5.7x28 for hunting of some sort?

I view the 5x7x28 as largely an amusing range-toy, kind of like an NFA item, but I'm curious if someone has found a hunting use for them.
__________________
"Our contract called for 16 cases of rifles and ammunition for $10,000 dollars, not a machine gun...........That is our present to the General"-Pike Bishop

When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
Beretta686 is offline  
Old September 5, 2013, 04:47 PM   #2
Wyosmith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2010
Location: Shoshoni Wyoming
Posts: 1,241
Ballisticly it’ about the same as a 22 WMR. So you certainly can hunt with one. Wood chucks, foxes, coyotes and so on would be perfect game for that shell.
Wyosmith is offline  
Old September 5, 2013, 07:47 PM   #3
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,143
it would be quite similar to hunting with a 204 ruger in terms of energy(assuming 16 inch barrels). standard 5.7 loads use 40gr Vmaxes, a very common varminting/predator bullet. if a person reloads for it and found some light hollow points or soft points I would even go so far as to say it could be used for deer.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old September 5, 2013, 07:52 PM   #4
rdmallory
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 10, 2009
Location: Deltona FL
Posts: 952
Quote:
Ballisticly it’ about the same as a 22 WMR.
Not again!! Google is your friend.

I own two, and the rifle will turn a Prairie dog into green and red mist at 150 yards. I reload and Varmint Nightmare hollow points get the job done. And now days it is about the same price as 22LR.

Doug
rdmallory is offline  
Old September 5, 2013, 09:20 PM   #5
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,143
really? I wasn't aware that 5.7 came in 500 round bricks for $20
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old September 5, 2013, 10:18 PM   #6
Rikakiah
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 29, 2013
Posts: 183
Where are you getting .22LR for 500/$20?
Rikakiah is offline  
Old September 5, 2013, 10:41 PM   #7
Stukaman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 17, 2010
Posts: 101
5.7x28 for hunting?

Yeah dude where you be hiding bricks of .22 for 20 dollars?
Stukaman is offline  
Old September 5, 2013, 11:34 PM   #8
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: 1B ID
Posts: 6,815
Quote:
Yeah dude where you be hiding bricks of .22 for 20 dollars?
Jackson, Wyoming.
__________________
"Such is the strange way that man works -- first he virtually destroys a species and then does everything in his power to restore it."
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old September 6, 2013, 12:12 AM   #9
teeroux
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 12, 2006
Posts: 1,492
I got a brick of 22lr last month for 18 and change from walmart.
teeroux is offline  
Old September 6, 2013, 03:38 AM   #10
darkgael
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2006
Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania.
Posts: 4,296
Just as a point of reference regarding prices of 5.7X28 vs .22RF.
Midway lists the 5.7 at $203 for 500. Their .22rf prices are $20-$33 for a brick of your basic .22s.

Use....when we say that "they" are using the 5.7 for hunting....ya gotta remember that "they" do lots of things that range into the iffy.
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
Pete
__________________
"Only hunting and mountain climbing are sports. The rest are just games." - R.Ruark
NRA Life Member
darkgael is offline  
Old September 6, 2013, 07:09 AM   #11
Beretta686
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 11, 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 731
Quote:
Use....when we say that "they" are using the 5.7 for hunting....ya gotta remember that "they" do lots of things that range into the iffy.
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
Indeed, I hear many epic tales while shooting. A grain of salt and some research can do wonders.

I usually use a suppressed .22 pistol for rabbits, but now I think I'm going to try my Five-Seven, as it's much flatter shooting. But for pigs, I think I'll demur on the 5.7.
__________________
"Our contract called for 16 cases of rifles and ammunition for $10,000 dollars, not a machine gun...........That is our present to the General"-Pike Bishop

When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
Beretta686 is offline  
Old September 6, 2013, 07:38 AM   #12
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,540
Way less performance than a .204, for sure. I'm dubious about penetration on something like a hog. Slaughter in a pen is nothing at all like hunting in the field.

From Wikipedia:

Ballistic performance

Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
23 gr (1 g) SS90 AP FMJ 850 m/s (2,800 ft/s) 540 J (400 ft·lbf)

31 gr (2 g) SS190 AP FMJ 716 m/s (2,350 ft/s) 534 J (394 ft·lbf)

28 gr (2 g) SS195LF JHP 716 m/s (2,350 ft/s) 467 J (344 ft·lbf)

Test barrel length: 263 mm (10.35 in)

Source(s): The Encyclopedia of Handheld Weapons

Data I've seen for handguns shows a muzzle velocity just under 2,000 ft/sec. I will say that the pistol is fun to shoot, and groups quite nicely.
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Old September 6, 2013, 08:44 AM   #13
zukiphile
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2005
Posts: 1,653
Quote:
I view the 5x7x28 as largely an amusing range-toy, kind of like an NFA item, but I'm curious if someone has found a hunting use for them.
My WAG would be that people who hunt with a rifle and can reload would fill that niche with .22 hornet.
zukiphile is offline  
Old September 6, 2013, 10:10 AM   #14
BoogieMan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2012
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,274
@ the OP---The cartridge may be able to down a hog with a properly placed shot, that doesnt mean you should try it. A .357 (loaded hot) at minimum for hog. Your 5.7 is great for all the vermin running around. I dont think anyone should shoot large game with anything less than 90gr. Just my $0.02.
__________________
Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it.
Milton Freidman
BoogieMan is offline  
Old September 6, 2013, 12:01 PM   #15
JD0x0
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 30, 2013
Posts: 856
The 5.7x28 is not even close to the 5.2x47 (AKA .204 Ruger)

I would keep game size to coyote, maximum and ranges fairly short, for the 5.7
They generally use light bullets with low ballistic coefficients, and sectional density, and the muzzle velocity is not very impressive. It's essentially the .223 'downsized' into a pistol cartridge.

It could be plausible to use it for pigs at very close range, but I WOULD NOT recommend it unless you're using AP ammo and limiting yourself to headshots. And still, there are obvious choices which would be better, for that task.

I really hope this guy isn't using his semi auto to empty an entire magazine, on game that is too large for the cartridge and caliber he is using.

Last edited by JD0x0; September 6, 2013 at 12:10 PM.
JD0x0 is offline  
Old September 6, 2013, 01:18 PM   #16
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,143
Quote:
I would keep game size to coyote, maximum and ranges fairly short, for the 5.7
They generally use light bullets with low ballistic coefficients, and sectional density, and the muzzle velocity is not very impressive. It's essentially the .223 'downsized' into a pistol cartridge.
that is incredibly interesting considering that the 40gr hornady Vmax loaded in most factory 5.7 casings have a BC of .200 yet a 55gr sierra gameking intended for 223 and 22-250 has a BC of .185.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old September 6, 2013, 02:22 PM   #17
JD0x0
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 30, 2013
Posts: 856
Quote:
that is incredibly interesting considering that the 40gr hornady Vmax loaded in most factory 5.7 casings have a BC of .200 yet a 55gr sierra gameking intended for 223 and 22-250 has a BC of .185.
That has nothing to do with the 5.7x28 case. Both those ballistic coefficients are terrible, and it's likely comparing bullets of different shapes. Considering all these bullets are .224 diameter, they could all potentially be used interchangeably, and if you compare similar shaped bullets and constructed bullets, heavier ones will always have better BC's. Of course if you compare a 40 grain boat tail to a 55 grain flat base, there are going to be numerous differences. And the boat tail has the potential for a higher BC despite the flatbase being slightly heavier.
You do realize you could load the Vmax into .223 and the gameking in the 5.7, right? It doesn't change the factuality of my statement, simply because you found a bullet with a higher BC in 5.7 than a bullet in .223 doesn't change that the 5.7 is generally loaded with low BC and low SD bullets. Of course you could find a lower BC bullet for the .223 as you could for the 5.7
The original AP ammo in the 5.7 ranged in weight from 23-31 grains.
Also note I did type 'generally'
Of course you could probably load a 90 grain boat tail into the 5.7 and get a decent BC and SD but it's going to be pushed SLOW and it's going to need a custom barrel. GENERALLY 5.7 as well as .223 bullets tend to have low BC's and SD's. Since 60+ grain bullets are more common in the .223 it generally is loaded with slightly higher SD and BC bullets. But that doesn't stop someone from loading a 30 grain flat base in their .223 either.

Last edited by JD0x0; September 6, 2013 at 02:40 PM.
JD0x0 is offline  
Old September 6, 2013, 02:23 PM   #18
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: 1B ID
Posts: 6,815
Tahunua - He didn't say the ballistic coefficients were "lower". He just said they were "low".

When you're talking about almost any cartridge that launches bullets at more than ~1,800 fps, a ballistic coefficient of .200 is low. I have handgun bullets (traditional cartridges) with better BCs.
__________________
"Such is the strange way that man works -- first he virtually destroys a species and then does everything in his power to restore it."
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old September 6, 2013, 03:18 PM   #19
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,143
I guess I misread his post, so in fact the generalization was pointed at 22s as a whole as being unsuited for anything but coyotes.

Oh! nein you didn't!


this 200LB buck didn't seem to think he was too big for a 55grain bullet with horrible ballistic coefficient at 225 yards.

BTW, at 225 yards, this 223 ammo is going about 200 FPS slower than the muzzle velocity of a 5.7 so theoretically, given bullets with decent velocity and BC(for a 22) the 5.7 should make a passable deer cartridge at least within muzzle loader ranges.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.

Last edited by tahunua001; September 6, 2013 at 06:34 PM.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old September 6, 2013, 07:51 PM   #20
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,540
I guess BC might be important out beyond 300, but inside? What difference does it make?
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Old September 6, 2013, 09:33 PM   #21
JD0x0
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 30, 2013
Posts: 856
Quote:
I guess BC might be important out beyond 300, but inside? What difference does it make?
It makes a measurable difference.

For scientific purposes I will use the same weight bullet and MV with an imaginary BC, for each.

Lets just say we're firing a 70grain .224 diameter bullet @ 3000fps.
@100 yards a bullet with a G1 BC of .2 will have slowed to 2523fps, from 3000fps. This yields about 989ft/lbs of energy with about 2 inches of wind drift in a 10mph crosswind, with 2.39 inches of drop from the muzzle. Temperature 65 degrees F, at sea level.
Keeping EVERYTHING else the same and giving the bullet an imaginary BC of .65
@100 yards the bullet has slowed to about 2849fps yielding 1262ft/lbs of energy. With only .88 inches of wind drift and 2.21 inches of drop.

Increase the range to 200 yards and the difference grows even further.
BC .2 = 2107fps, 690ft/lbs 10.31'' drop 7.14'' drift
BC .65 = 2707fps, 1139ft/lbs 8.73'' drop. 2.25'' drift
JD0x0 is offline  
Old September 6, 2013, 10:03 PM   #22
johnwilliamson062
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 6,813
I can't imagine a 5.7 not doing the job with decent placement. Maybe not a lot of hydrostatic shock, but plenty of penetration to hit lung and heart I think.
__________________
$0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. You could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation
First Shotgun Thread First Rifle Thread First Pistol Thread
johnwilliamson062 is offline  
Old September 6, 2013, 10:43 PM   #23
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,143
and where exactly have you seen a 70 grain bullet of any caliber that had a BC of 650?
a 90 gr speer deep curl in 6mm only has a BC of .365

a 140gr Amax in 6.5mm only has a BC of .585

a 180 grain speer deep curl in 308 only has .483

a 325gr hornady FTX in 458 is only .230

where exactly have you seen such a bullet with such a BC? all of those are high quality bullet designs and all are considered to have decent, if not outstanding BCs.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old September 7, 2013, 01:07 AM   #24
JD0x0
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 30, 2013
Posts: 856
Quote:
It makes a measurable difference.

For scientific purposes I will use the same weight bullet and MV with an imaginary BC, for each.

Lets just say we're firing a 70grain .224 diameter bullet @ 3000fps.
@100 yards a bullet with a G1 BC of .2 will have slowed to 2523fps, from 3000fps. This yields about 989ft/lbs of energy with about 2 inches of wind drift in a 10mph crosswind, with 2.39 inches of drop from the muzzle. Temperature 65 degrees F, at sea level.
Keeping EVERYTHING else the same and giving the bullet an imaginary BC of .65@100 yards the bullet has slowed to about 2849fps yielding 1262ft/lbs of energy. With only .88 inches of wind drift and 2.21 inches of drop.

Increase the range to 200 yards and the difference grows even further.
BC .2 = 2107fps, 690ft/lbs 10.31'' drop 7.14'' drift
BC .65 = 2707fps, 1139ft/lbs 8.73'' drop. 2.25'' drift
JD0x0 is offline  
Old September 7, 2013, 01:51 AM   #25
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,143
you can imagine a big blue ox but that doesn't mean that they are real and you are making a very overblown argument. it is outside the realm of physics to have two bullets of the same caliber and weight to have such a wide difference in ballistic coefficient so all that data you provided is worthless.

I am ready to leave this one be. I've made my case for the 5.7 and 22 caliber bullets in general for hunting application and you have done your best to argu against... I think...

6 to 1 ballistic coefficient comparisons with the same bullet weights are confusing me. have a good weekend.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12176 seconds with 9 queries