The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Bolt, Lever, and Pump Action

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 31, 2013, 08:16 AM   #1
Garycw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2011
Location: Ohio-Kentucky - florida
Posts: 1,170
Help W/Enfield ID

Picked up a cheap what I think is a Enfield with a broken front stock piece. Hoping to pin point exact model to obtain original replacement part. Gun seems to function properly and good rifling. Thanks for any help and sorry for bad pics
Ps... Picked this up for a whopping $30





Garycw is offline  
Old August 31, 2013, 08:29 AM   #2
wogpotter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 27, 2004
Posts: 3,047
What the stamp says. A 1916 Birmingham Small Arms made rifle no1 MkIII* AKA a Short Model Leee Enfield.
__________________
Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”?

Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”
wogpotter is offline  
Old August 31, 2013, 09:02 AM   #3
PetahW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2008
Posts: 4,679
.

Yep, a No1 - MkIII* SMLE rifle.


.
PetahW is offline  
Old August 31, 2013, 09:51 AM   #4
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,079
those two beat me to it... in pretty rough shape I might add. it might be best to just slap it in a ramline stock and call it good. restoring that to it's former glory would be much more expensive than just going out and buying one in good condition.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old August 31, 2013, 10:38 AM   #5
Garycw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2011
Location: Ohio-Kentucky - florida
Posts: 1,170
Help W/Enfield ID

Thanks for the ID help. I was hoping I could just find the front wood stock piece cheap and the band at the end. The rest isn't too awful bad that wouldn't clean up. I'll be able to tell more when I clean and start on the metal. I'm assuming I would need the front stock, metal band and sling mount for butt stock??
Garycw is offline  
Old August 31, 2013, 11:10 AM   #6
wogpotter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 27, 2004
Posts: 3,047
You're going to need more than just those pieces to restore it. Theres the wood, the bands, the metal "nosecap" frontpiece, the band & spring that goes inside for tensioning & the frontsight components as well as the sling swivels.
__________________
Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”?

Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”
wogpotter is offline  
Old August 31, 2013, 02:36 PM   #7
Garycw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2011
Location: Ohio-Kentucky - florida
Posts: 1,170
Help W/Enfield ID

Quote:
Originally Posted by wogpotter View Post
You're going to need more than just those pieces to restore it. Theres the wood, the bands, the metal "nosecap" frontpiece, the band & spring that goes inside for tensioning & the frontsight components as well as the sling swivels.

Thanks WOG, I was hoping I could just get the piece #65 in the diagram. I can't really tell what piece #66 &#67 are? Do you have the parts lists that corps pond with #'s? Didn't show in my pics rear sight , which is there with the elevation ramp and not sure what else goes with front sight at end of barrel. Is there supposed to be wood over top of barrel? Enfield are something new to me.
Garycw is offline  
Old August 31, 2013, 03:46 PM   #8
wogpotter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 27, 2004
Posts: 3,047
This is odd. I can't access the image I posted
Ok trying a different source for you with part descriptions. The numbers on this may be different from the other one.



As near as I can tell from the pics you need.
32
33
34
35
38
39
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57 X2
66
67
68

These are probably the best sources for them.
SARCO:
http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/

NUMRICH ARMS
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/

SPRINGFIELD SPORTERS
http://www.ssporters.com/

MARSTAR (Canada)
(Just remember the shown prices are Canadian, not U.S. dollars)
http://www.marstar.ca/html/home.html

The front end was wood all the eay to the muzzle (#66) & 2 top pieces meeeting at the middle band (#67 & 68)

The screws springs, shoes & so on were needed to apply tension for bedding the barrel.
__________________
Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”?

Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

Last edited by wogpotter; August 31, 2013 at 04:01 PM.
wogpotter is offline  
Old August 31, 2013, 05:05 PM   #9
Garycw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2011
Location: Ohio-Kentucky - florida
Posts: 1,170
Help W/Enfield ID

Holly crap! That's alot of stuff! I guess $30 was a fair price then. . It seemed and worked like it would still shoot, but now I'm not sure if it would fly apart or not. Might turn out to be a better parts rifle.
Garycw is offline  
Old August 31, 2013, 06:36 PM   #10
PetahW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2008
Posts: 4,679
.

The thing is, your SMLE was crudely "sporterized" by cutting the forestock off short & discarding the wood handguard atop the bbl, along with the extraneous bands, etc - before it was left to rust.

I've found the best way to deal with a milsurp rifle like that, provided the bore's OK, is to do some rust removal & then paint the metal flat black, before shooting it in otherwise "as-is" condition.

I wouldn't even spend the $$ for a Ramline stock, unless the stock was cracked/broken.

Those SMLE's make a nice backup/rain gun for deer, etc, and are ideal for use as a "loaner".





.
PetahW is offline  
Old August 31, 2013, 06:58 PM   #11
Garycw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2011
Location: Ohio-Kentucky - florida
Posts: 1,170
Help W/Enfield ID

Quote:
Originally Posted by PetahW View Post
.
..

I wouldn't even spend the $$ for a Ramline stock, unless the stock was cracked/broken.

Those SMLE's make a nice backup/rain gun for deer, etc, and are ideal for use as a "loaner".

Well the stock is broken & and missing a big chunk of wood exposing the side of mag and trigger assembly. It appears to function properly, just looks real bad. It would also let first in


..

.
..
Garycw is offline  
Old September 1, 2013, 07:45 AM   #12
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,985
To bring it back into military trim, the stuff that you need is probably going to cost you at least $100 to $150 based on the parts prices I've been seeing lately.

Then there's the fact that it looks to be pretty badly rusted.

What's the bore like?
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old September 1, 2013, 07:45 AM   #13
wogpotter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 27, 2004
Posts: 3,047
Before you just give up realize a lot of those parts are $2.00 nuts $1.00 springs $3.00 bolts & so on.
You could probably find 3/4 of that stuff on E-Bay & have change for a $20!
__________________
Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”?

Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”
wogpotter is offline  
Old September 1, 2013, 08:07 AM   #14
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,985
Problem is, it's the stock that's going to make the total jump quickly.

I'm facing the same thing with my Dad's old 1903A3, which was my hunting rifle when I was a kid. I'd love to return it to military configuration (Dad had the stock sporterized in the 1960s), but prices for military stocks are just obscene, and reproduction stocks aren't much cheaper.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old September 1, 2013, 09:15 AM   #15
Garycw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2011
Location: Ohio-Kentucky - florida
Posts: 1,170
Help W/Enfield ID

The bore looks pretty good. I found some front wood cheap but not sure it'll work on my short model

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=362775896

But I think this one might work if the other one doesn't.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=362704078

If anyone thinks the first one would work if appreciate the input.
Thanks
Garycw is offline  
Old September 1, 2013, 09:24 AM   #16
Garycw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2011
Location: Ohio-Kentucky - florida
Posts: 1,170
Help W/Enfield ID

Ps.. The piece of wood stock that has the missing/broke piece measures approx 22 1/2"
Garycw is offline  
Old September 1, 2013, 09:30 AM   #17
gyvel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2009
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 5,229
The first eBay item will not work; It is for a No. 4 rifle. Yours is a No. 1.

The second item is the correct one.
gyvel is offline  
Old September 1, 2013, 02:31 PM   #18
Garycw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2011
Location: Ohio-Kentucky - florida
Posts: 1,170
Help W/Enfield ID

Quote:
Originally Posted by gyvel View Post
The first eBay item will not work; It is for a No. 4 rifle. Yours is a No. 1.

The second item is the correct one.
Ok, the 2nd one is for the short rifle, which WOG mentioned I had. However when I measure the wood stock piece that's on, it measures 22 1/2"
? Not 18" as it shoes on the picture on 2nd one
Garycw is offline  
Old September 1, 2013, 02:46 PM   #19
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,079
you are misunderstanding.
there are more than one type of enfield. the rifle you have is a number 1. the foregrip from the first link is for a enfield number 4.
either one should work though given a little fitting. if you are trying to restore it then the number 4 would not work on a number 1 because the bayonet lug/endcaps are different as are the locations of the rear sights. however since these are both sporterized foregrips there is no bayonet lug or handguards to worry about so they should fit well enough.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.

Last edited by tahunua001; September 1, 2013 at 04:30 PM.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old September 1, 2013, 03:46 PM   #20
Garycw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2011
Location: Ohio-Kentucky - florida
Posts: 1,170
Help W/Enfield ID

I understand I have a no. 1 Enfield. The first ad didn't specify which one the stock went to. However they replied with a measurement of 18 1/2". As well as the 2nd ad is showing tape measure at 18 1/2" and being for short Enfield. Mine is measuring 22 1/2". It's not impossible it could have wrong stock on, but seems to match butt stock. Someone mentioned I had the short version.
18 1/2" would measure out to where it looks like a band went to attach top wood?
I would love to restore to original, but would be happy just to have a shooter without gaping hole is side of stock too.
Here's some more pics of mine




Garycw is offline  
Old September 1, 2013, 04:07 PM   #21
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,718
I bought an ATI sporter stock from Amazon for 57.00 for my No.1 MK III. Even tho I'm not a fan of synthetic stocks it beats the bubbarized one I had.
Hawg is offline  
Old September 1, 2013, 04:12 PM   #22
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,079
all three of these stocks were made by cutting down the original forends that run all the way to the tip of the barrel. yours was simply cut off and rounded out longer than the other two. some people simply prefer shorter, some like it longer. none were actually made to be 22 or 18.5 inches. they were all modfied to be that way. the number 4 had a little different profile which is why it was pointed out that the first is from a number 4. though all enfields require a special amount of fitting, getting a stock originally fitted to a number 4 to fit a number 1 will require more work on your part to get it to work. I would go with the second stock.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old September 1, 2013, 05:38 PM   #23
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,718
This is how your No.1 MK III originally looked.

Hawg is offline  
Old September 1, 2013, 06:49 PM   #24
Garycw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2011
Location: Ohio-Kentucky - florida
Posts: 1,170
Help W/Enfield ID

Awwwh! That answers alot and kind of what I expected. I'll look at possibly getting the wood no. 1 stock for $32 or keep an eye out for another no. 1. I'm watching a Monte Carlo to bid on tonight or will also think about the amazon route too.
It kind of makes me sick to see a milsurp rifle permanently altered like that.
I found a full set of replacement wood with no fittings but its around $200.
I never thought if like s Enfield, but I'd like to find a all original in .308 if they come in that cal.
To have a all original , buying another one in better condition looks like the best way to go.
Garycw is offline  
Old September 1, 2013, 07:10 PM   #25
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,079
they did come in 7.62x51mm but none during wartime. ishapore didnt make them until 1968
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12643 seconds with 9 queries