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Old August 29, 2013, 09:21 AM   #1
Tom Servo
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New "Executive Actions"

Todd Jones will be sworn in as new Director for the BATFE today. This marks the first time the position has been filled since Carl Truscott left in 2006.

The administration is using this as an opportunity to announce two new executive orders regarding guns. The first is a moratorium on the importation of military surplus guns for the civilian market.

The second is a change in the way NFA trusts are handled. Under the proposal, all individuals associated with a trust would have to undergo a NICS check and submit fingerprints. How this will be implemented, or how it will actually work in practice, remains to be seen.

Supposedly, these measures will reduce the amount of crime guns on the street. Yep.
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Old August 29, 2013, 09:41 AM   #2
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One new policy will end a government practice that lets military weapons, sold or donated by the U.S. to allies, be reimported into the U.S. by private entities, where some may end up on the streets. The White House said the U.S. has approved 250,000 of those guns to be reimported since 2005; under the new policy, only museums and a few other entities like the government will be eligible to reimport military-grade firearms.

Looks like no more anything US military. How often you see a gang banger with a M1 Garand/Carbine or 1903 Springfield.

Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; August 29, 2013 at 10:49 AM. Reason: Creative Language
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Old August 29, 2013, 09:53 AM   #3
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i doubt very seriously that any executive order will ever come about. Why? No need to. The BATFE can invoke the "sporting purposes" clause of the GCA 1968 and ban them from import. The BATFE under Presidents Reagan, Bush I and Clinton banned guns from import citing the "sporting purposes" clause of the GCA 1968.
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Old August 29, 2013, 09:55 AM   #4
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Yeah, they're being termed executive actions, lowercase, not Executive Orders, upper case.
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Old August 29, 2013, 09:55 AM   #5
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Seems more like a need to make a new political statement than anything else.
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Old August 29, 2013, 09:57 AM   #6
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I'm not a lawyer, not even close.

I can understand his ability to sign an Executive Order preventing the importation of Foreign guns, that I can buy.

But, as to the re-importation of returned "loaned" US Surplus guns is a different matter. That was authorized by congress (before 1996 but re-authorized in '96). I don't see how an Executive order can over ride Congressional Law.

Plus, I'm not up on trust, but I though the trust rules were created by congress.

Where am I wrong here????
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Old August 29, 2013, 10:28 AM   #7
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According to a "fact sheet" the White House just released:

Quote:
However, felons, domestic abusers, and others prohibited from having guns can easily evade the required background check and gain access to machine guns or other particularly dangerous weapons by registering the weapon to a trust or corporation. (...) ATF reports that last year alone, it received more than 39,000 requests for transfers of these restricted firearms to trusts or corporations..
It's still a felony for those people to own or even handle firearms, and I'm not aware of a significant number of NFA items being used in crimes. I'm not sure why the 39,000 number is supposed to imply something sinister.

...and apparently, the ban on surplus imports "will help keep military-grade firearms off our streets."
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Old August 29, 2013, 11:03 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
According to a "fact sheet" the White House just released:
Quote:
However, felons, domestic abusers, and others prohibited from having guns can easily evade the required background check and gain access to machine guns or other particularly dangerous weapons by registering the weapon to a trust or corporation. (...) ATF reports that last year alone, it received more than 39,000 requests for transfers of these restricted firearms to trusts or corporations..
It's still a felony for those people to own or even handle firearms, and I'm not aware of a significant number of NFA items being used in crimes. I'm not sure why the 39,000 number is supposed to imply something sinister.
It's supposed to imply that felons are busy creating NFA trusts so so that they can buy NFA items without background checks . . .
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Old August 29, 2013, 11:08 AM   #9
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It's my understanding that the NFA trust changes are being done by formal rule making -- the formal process where by a regulatory agency may, if authorized by statute, adopt of change administrative regulations. The rule making process requires that proposed regulations be published for comment before being adopted.

That subject has been under discussion at THR for a while.

ETA: And here as well.
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Old August 29, 2013, 11:18 AM   #10
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It should reduce the number of M1 Garands used in crimes from about zero to lower than that.
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Old August 29, 2013, 11:27 AM   #11
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Guys, based on the White House fact sheet that Tom posted the items are being referred to as executive actions. Am I correct that an executive action differs from an executive order?
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Old August 29, 2013, 11:33 AM   #12
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Just a guess: Executive Action comes from the Iron law of Oligarchy?
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Old August 29, 2013, 11:41 AM   #13
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OK, here's what I could find on "Executive Actions" as a definition. This comes from NBC News and the entire article is located here:

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2...ve-action?lite

Quote:
But the trusty C-Span Glossary has no entry for "executive action" and tonight the White House clarified why, it's because it's kind of a catch all term. "It just means something the executive branch does. The use of any of a number of tools in the executive branch’s toolbox," said one administration official.

Executive actions can include "regulation, enforcement, statements of policy...and numerous other things," the official continued.
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Old August 29, 2013, 12:08 PM   #14
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Re: New Executive Orders

Maybe the real reason for the 39, 000 transfers to trusts are due to cleo not signing off keeping law abiding citizens from the legal use and possession of these items, or the fact you can't add two people, ie husband/wife/father/son, to the forms. I just sent in a trust NFA application so my wife wouldn't be at risk to possess my to be "manufactured" one day sbr ak. Wonder when the true reasons behind a statistic will be reported. Though that wouldn't help push the antigun agenda.
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Old August 29, 2013, 01:16 PM   #15
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I knew I should have bought an SKS sooner. To say nothing of Garands and Carbines. Their speculative prices are about to go up.

This is really quite ridiculous. I know of one case where a person used an M1 Carbine in a mass shooting in my town to kill somewhere between 6-8 people. He also used a 6 shot revolver and then shot himself with it.

This won't even stop people from getting guns. It will just make them more expensive for collectors due to limited supply and potential hoarding.
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Old August 29, 2013, 02:01 PM   #16
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IMHO, a lot of those transfers are for suppressors now that it's legal in Texas to hunt game with a suppressed rifle.
You know, for safety reason like protecting our hearing.
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Old August 29, 2013, 02:18 PM   #17
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All of this has absolutely nothing to do with gun control.
Gun control laws have nothing to do with crime.
This is all about disarming the populous so we can become subservient subjects and no longer free men.
Look at the curriculum in public schools; look at all the new procedures schools have put in place after the CT shooting.
Look at how local LEO have geared up to military style weapons and gear.

Now for the bright side - my collection is going up in value every time a new order or gun control bill passes and when they come to take my guns they get them ammo 1st because it is easier distribute.
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Old August 29, 2013, 02:33 PM   #18
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So will this affect the eastern block commie guns or just former Us military guns?
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Old August 29, 2013, 02:38 PM   #19
eldermike
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Quote:
But the trusty C-Span Glossary has no entry for "executive action" and tonight the White House clarified why, it's because it's kind of a catch all term. "It just means something the executive branch does. The use of any of a number of tools in the executive branch’s toolbox," said one administration official.

Executive actions can include "regulation, enforcement, statements of policy...and numerous other things," the official continued.
So I was right. For those that might not be aware the law I mentioned above is always at work. When you can't find agreement within a structure where it's supposed to be found then you take action simply based upon that alone. The same structure that can't agree on an action will also not/never agree on how to stop any action that is taken. Done.
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Old August 29, 2013, 03:14 PM   #20
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I never knew my K31 was such a terror in the streets.
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Old August 29, 2013, 03:41 PM   #21
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Didn't Bobby Seals and the first Black Panthers use M1 Carbines?
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Old August 29, 2013, 04:32 PM   #22
Tom Servo
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Quote:
OK, here's what I could find on "Executive Actions" as a definition.
Hm...so I completely misread that. I have no idea exactly what an executive action entails.

...but I corrected the thread title to reduce potential confusion
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Old August 29, 2013, 05:24 PM   #23
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Those numbers are intended to impress people who don't or won't read the statement. It doesn't say 39,000 felons got machineguns through trusts. It says there were 39,000 transfers to trusts. Then it says that felons could (not DID) obtain weapons that way.

Very carefully worded with full intent to deceive. Hail Obama!

Jim
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Old August 29, 2013, 06:22 PM   #24
alan
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Re these Executive Orders (2), and the Vice Presidents comments thereon, the following comes to mind.

1. The military small arms, essentially Garand rifles and M-1 Carbines were manufactured in the U.S. in the first place.

2. Garand Rifles have come to have significant historical significance and value.

3. Additionally, they would meet the double-talk requirements of the BATFE, in that they are legal hunting arms in many states, that makes them "sporting arms" and they are frequently used in shooting competitions too.

4. When was the last documented instance of criminal use of either a Garand Rifle or M-1 Carbine? Note, I reference DOCUMENTED, NOT ANECDOTAL USE.

5. Regarding Biden's reference to ineligible persons registering automatic weapons or other Class 3(NFA Firearms) to trusts or corporations, how many, again DOCUMENTED instances of this happening can he show, for his off-hand comments, given his history as an anti gun/anti gun rights operator cast serious doubt on the value of his offerings, but wait, there's more. Wasn't Biden the one who suggested that "when threatened, one should go out into their front yard with their 12 Ga., double barreled shotgun and fire it into the air". As I recall, he did so offer, seemingly having forgotten that what goes up, comes down, the question of where it comes down remaining unanswered, or perhaps the Vice President is unconcerned by such mundane considerations as the Law of Gravity. Some of us ordinary citizens aren't so casual.

6. In conclusion, I strongly suggest that readers here get on to their U.S. Senators and Congressional Representatives soliciting action to kill Obama's latest anti gun/anti gun rights/anti civil rights ploys, and that they do this RDN (Right Damned Now). The results obtained from "constituent encouragement" are sometimes amazing.

I see one poster mentioned possible or likely price escalation, something that viewers will probably see.

Last edited by alan; August 29, 2013 at 06:40 PM.
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Old August 29, 2013, 06:30 PM   #25
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Does not seem to affect most C&R weapons, which are imports of foreign milsurps (Mausers, Mosins, SKS's)? Only originally U.S. manufactured?
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