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Old August 22, 2013, 06:36 PM   #26
Tom Servo
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If it's such a horrible imposition, I left instructions on how to make it stop in post #2 of this very thread.
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Old August 22, 2013, 10:27 PM   #27
Bullcamp82834
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It's no imposition.

But every dime they blow trying to recruit someone who is already a dedicated member could be going to sign up a new member.

Maybe I'm missing something here.
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Old August 23, 2013, 07:34 AM   #28
Mike Irwin
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"Maybe I'm missing something here."

You are.

Reaching out to members can often result in donations to the organization that would otherwise be unrealized.

Here's another thing you may not realize... NRA purchases dozens of mailing lists every year, literally millions of names of people who have a statistical chance of being pro Second Amendent.

They do their best to scrub those lists against the lists of current members, but sometimes there are address/name variations that make it seem as if someone who is a current member ISN'T a member based on the list just purchased from the Kalamazoo Kud Chewer Sixgun Society.



I've said this many times before about direct mail, but it also applies to other forms of fund raising...

If a particular fund raising tactic (direct mail, direct phone contact, etc.) isn't working, and is burning more money that it is bringing in, it will NOT be continued.

The entire purpose behind fund raising activities is that they pay for themselves by bringing in the amount of money it costs to operate that activity PLUS money on top of that.



"I did politely ask her to go to her management and as see if they can maybe search for a better way to raise funds than they currently do."

So, dontcatchmany, did you also provide the lady with your perfect solution?

The one "magical formula" that results in zero dollars expended but brings in millions, if not billions, of dollars in return?

You, and many, many others apparently think fund raising is something easy to do.


"I also question whether the solicitations are truly from NRA and, if so, how much actually goes to fighting the gun control bastages and how much is overhead."

So get in touch with NRA and ASK. I believe that as a non profit organization they're required to keep those kinds of figures and provide them to those who request them.


Ultimately, I find it to be really frustrating that so many people treat solicitations from NRA as if it's some Shakespearean high drama...

"Oh heavens rent asunder! A pox upon thine house, NRA! How darest thou bespoil my mail with thine beggary!"

That kind of reaction is almost always accompanied by a whole series of blatantly wrong assertions about NRA and its fund raising efforts, some of which have been touched on in this thead.

There's a damned good reason why NRA is such a money raising animal. It's because the enemies of the Second Amendment are no less dedicated and no less focused in their efforts to destroy our rights.

I don't know how much NRA spent fighting off Congressional and state action in the aftermath of the Newtown shootings, but I have NO doubt that it was in the tens of millions of dollars.

I have a little suggestion for everyone who is offended that NRA would ever ask them for a donation...

If you don't want NRA to send you e-mails, snail mails, OR contact you via phone (cue sturm und drang!) when they need cash to fight for YOUR rights, then get off your ass and set up an automatic monthly bill pay, credit card charge, whatever, that goes STRAIGHT to the NRA activity of your choice.
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Old August 23, 2013, 08:54 AM   #29
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Several years ago a former NRA board member told me that each mass mailing and telephone solicitation campaign nets about one million dollars for the NRA.

The enemies of our Second Amendment rights are well funded. Taxpayer dollars are being used against us by anti-gun, anti-self defense politicians sitting in the US congress and white house.

What happens if the NRA runs out of funds smack in the middle of the next big congressional push to gut our Second Amendment rights?

IMO: It's a sad day when NRA members complain and whine about mail from the NRA while refusing to contribute the price of a premium six pack of beer annually to the cause of gun rights.
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Old August 23, 2013, 08:59 AM   #30
Bullcamp82834
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jeeze Mike..........

I didn't mean to stomp a nerve. Im on the same side as you. Perhaps not as well informed on the fine details of marketing via mail. Doesn't it cost a lot of money at postage prices these days?

I'll stand by the second amendment till the last breath leaves my lungs. Just want to make every shot count.
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Old August 23, 2013, 09:56 AM   #31
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Quote:
Doesn't it cost a lot of money at postage prices these days?
I'm sure they get a bulk mail discount. Anyway, believe me, if the NRA was losing money on sending out direct mail, they wouldn't be doing it.

What I think some folks (not me, particularly) object to is the "beggar mentality". People in general don't like beggars coming up to them at gas stations while they are pumping their gas and asking "hey, buddy, you got some spare change...", knowing they most likely are going to use it for drugs or booze.

Well, some folks don't like coming home at night, reading through their mail and having to read through a pitch by the NRA that the world is coming to an end and their guns are going to be confiscated....please help fight the fight with your donation....etc. It really is the content that some folks object to; not the mailing or the cost of mailing. If there was a coupon attached to each NRA letter for 50% off anything in Harbor Freight, INCLUDING other sales items, these folks wouldn't be complaining about what the NRA spends on direct mail.

Also, the truth is that when many folks actually read the NRA beggar-grams, they know that most, if not all, of what it says is true, and a part of them thinks they should send money; but they just don't want to. This is the category I typically fall into. But, I knew the deal when I bought my NRA membership - good group of folks doing good things for all of us, but sometimes their mailings cause me some "guilt" so they can be a PITA.
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Old August 23, 2013, 10:12 AM   #32
Mike Irwin
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The reason it stomps a nerve is because every six months or so, almost clockwork, someone comes steaming into the boards all hot and lathered and screaming about how NRA is wasting huge amounts of his money with direct mailings, and if he's ticked off, that means that EVERY SINGLE NRA member is also ticked off because he's representative of everyone, and so forth and so on.

It just boggles my mind that people think NRA, or any other organization, would regularly use a method of raising money that LOSES them more money than it brings in.

I'm sure that even my dog could see the logic if he were to think about it long enough.


"Doesn't it cost a lot of money at postage prices these days?"

Yes, postage costs a lot. But once again, NRA doesn't send out a direct mail with the intention of throwing $100,000 down the crapper.

My numbers are getting to be pretty old from my days when I worked in direct mail (not for NRA, but for a major financial organization), but I think they hold up to a little extrapolation...

A simple, 100,000 piece direct mail campaign, including postage, production costs, envelopes, and the whole schemear, probably costs between $10,000 and $12,000. (Remember, bulk rate reduces postage costs significantly.)

I'm not joking when I say direct mail is cheap. There's an old joke in the direct mail industry that the first letter costs you $9,999.99, and the other 99,999 letters cost a penny...

In the industry, a successful response rate for a direct mail is usually considered to be between 1/2 to 1 percent. For targeted, hot button organizations like NRA, the response rate is frequently quite a bit higher. When I was working at NRA, response rates were in the 4% range.

So, let's say we hit the 1% mark - 1,000 responses.

In order to break even on the mailing, you need a check for $10 in every one of those responses.

Chances are, though, that many of them are going to have checks for more than $10, some of them are going to be a LOT more than $10.

The biggest mail contribution check I ever saw when I worked for NRA was $30,000, and that wasn't even remotely close to the largest check I saw in response to a direct mail campaign.

Once you cover the cost of the direct mailing, everything else you bring in is absolute gravy.

And it is a RARE direct mail campaign that doesn't meet the minimum goal of paying for itself.

I've said this before, I'll say it again, and hopefully, HOPEFULLY it will sink in for those people who are inclined to believe that NRA is just wasting their money with direct mailers... I'm even going to use a colorful, larger size font to press home the point.

Organizations like NRA continue to use direct mail for fund raising because it is, even in the internet age, the single most cost effective and productive means of raising money.

So, even if you don't respond to a direct mail, enough members ARE responding to them to making them a continuing source of steady revenue to fund NRA's activities.
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Old August 23, 2013, 10:14 AM   #33
Mike Irwin
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"What I think some folks (not me, particularly) object to is the "beggar mentality". People in general don't like beggars coming up to them at gas stations while they are pumping their gas and asking "hey, buddy, you got some spare change...", knowing they most likely are going to use it for drugs or booze."


Please don't get me started about that!

I want to STRANGLE people who believe that NRA's primary activity is begging!

Begging infers asking for something for absolutely no return. Its a handout.

NRA provides an incredible amount of return for the money that is contributed to them.


Unfortunately, people with that mentaility are normally the FIRST to start screaming about "WHERE WAS NRA TO PROTECT MY RIGHTS???" when something doesn't go the way they want it to.
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Old August 23, 2013, 01:54 PM   #34
Skans
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Quote:
I want to STRANGLE people who believe that NRA's primary activity is begging!
Please don't do that - they're paying members too!

I'm a huge fan of the NRA! I don't mind their direct mail campaigns or other solicitations, and recognize that they NEED to be doing this, otherwise, we are just paying to belong to a lame-duck organization. The NRA is anything but a lame-duck organization, thank goodness.

Still, I understand how many people new to the NRA think the direct mail campaigns are relentless to the point of being "cheesy".
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Old August 23, 2013, 02:44 PM   #35
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If a particular fund raising tactic (direct mail, direct phone contact, etc.) isn't working, and is burning more money that it is bringing in, it will NOT be continued.
Maybe. I have looked at finances for several charity organizations where dinner events were the "primary fundraiser." In several cases both monetary and volunteer resources expended on the projects pointed to it clearly being a net resource loser. Even when secondary effects such as additional donations of attendees were added in to the mix. Why did they continue? People in leadership at the charity enjoyed the events and they didn't lose all that much money.
I doubt this applies to NRA direct mailing, but cost effectiveness isn't always the measure used to select fundraisers. Direct mail is notoriously effective though.
Quote:
how much actually goes to fighting the gun control bastages and how much is overhead."
If you define that as I do $0 of the membership fee. I looked at PVF and ILA figures at one point. and I remember the program use percentage being fairly high though.

I have a budget each year and I spend that budget. No direct mail is going to change that. Several times an important court case happening in Ohio or an important piece of legislation has convinced me to kick some extra money to an organization or a campaign fund.
Of course, I donate it to the organization I think is going to give the largest marginal return on my money. That usually isn't a large organization.
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Old August 23, 2013, 09:11 PM   #36
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How many people are living in the U.S. that are gun owners? 80 million give or take?

How many of those are NRA members? 5 million give or take? And that's after the latest swarm of new members since our recent trying time.

My point? I have an extremely hard time maintaining any grudge against the NRA when they call me at least twice a week interrupting dinnertime. I have an extremely hard time not maintaining a grudge with the community of firearms owners in general. Somehow, we can't or won't come up with 25 measly dollars for a yearly membership and throw the ILA $10 their way every few months all the while peoples' basements are stacked to the gills in ammo and/or new safes cram-packed with AR15s.

People have the absolute right to do whatever they want with their money. None of my business. But when the same people pull a stunt like this and turn around and bitch about their eroding rights, don't expect me to have an ear to lend.
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Old August 23, 2013, 10:00 PM   #37
kilimanjaro
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Check out this month's NRA Freedom magazine. States that the NRA and the Shooting Sports Organization (the industry lobby), spent several million dollars lobbying state and federal legislatures last year. NY Mayor Bloomberg spent more than the NRA and the industry COMBINED. In addition to Bloomberg's millions, the media continually provides BILLIONS of dollars worth of absolutely FREE editorializing, propaganda, and inculcation of anti-gun rights disinformation to the public.

Quit your whining about junk mail, and send a check to the gun rights organization of your choice. If you're not a member on one, join one today. Get involved or kiss your assault (semi-auto) rifles, or your high-powered sniper (deer rifle with scope), or your high-capacity (over 7 rounds) pistol, or your home defense (made for killing people) shotgun goodbye. The gun grabbers are not playing a game, they want to take them all and they will do so unless we sign on and ante up.
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Old August 24, 2013, 10:46 PM   #38
johnwilliamson062
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A great many gun owners are not pro-2A. They are pro firearms ownership with strict limits and regulations. A huge number of people the county sportsmans club were very supportive of making a firearms license that would be cost prohibitive for many when it came up in conversation. Several hundred dollars at least. I've run into many VERY serious clays shooters who were with uncle Joe. Why would they join the NRA or any other 2A organization?

There have been years I contributed several hundred dollars to pro-2A groups or supporting politicians who sponsored bills I was interested in. I've never payed for an NRA membership and probably never will.

The idea that every gun owner owes it to the country to join the NRA is absurd.
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Old August 25, 2013, 07:33 PM   #39
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There is a study that shows hunter types (not all, of course) can have very negative attitudes towards 'assault' weapons as they are designed to kill people. We recall the Zumbo incident also.
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Old August 25, 2013, 08:20 PM   #40
Shane Tuttle
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Quote:
The idea that every gun owner owes it to the country to join the NRA is absurd.
Yeah, I guess it would be absurd. Good thing no one is saying that here...
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Old August 25, 2013, 09:21 PM   #41
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I've posted here many times about my disgust with many in the clay sports fraternity.

Funny thing of it is, they think that their "sporting implements" won't be touched by the government because they're, well, "sporting implements," not nasty, icky, dangerous guns.

To see the fallacy behind that stance one only needs to look at what happened in Britain.
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Old August 26, 2013, 07:22 AM   #42
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Quote:
There is a study that shows hunter types (not all, of course) can have very negative attitudes towards 'assault' weapons as they are designed to kill people. We recall the Zumbo incident also.
Glenn, I think that attitude among hunters has changed considerably over the past 5 years , if not longer than that.
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Old August 26, 2013, 07:41 AM   #43
Mike Irwin
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Any particular group of people who use a particular type of firearm recreationally can have a negative attitude towards another type of firearm.

When I was growing up a very good friend's father was a big hunter and shotgunner, but he absolutely HATED handguns.
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Old August 26, 2013, 11:01 AM   #44
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Skans - that's an empirical question. The growth in firearms users is clearly the SD realm. Some criminologist can study the issue, I suppose.
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Old August 26, 2013, 01:18 PM   #45
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Funny thing of it is, they think that their "sporting implements" won't be touched by the government because they're, well, "sporting implements," not nasty, icky, dangerous guns.
Not to be too overly dramatic, but this always reminds me of the poem “First They Came” by Martin Niemöller. I know comparing anti-gun activist to the Nazis is a little over the top, but people need to realize that those who will steal one freedom will steal another.

Forgive my literary license, but here is an applicable version.

First they came for the semi-auto rifles,
and I didn't speak out because I didn’t own one.

Then they came for the semi-auto handguns,
and I didn't speak out because I didn’t own one.

Then they came for the revolvers,
and I didn't speak out because I didn’t own one.

Then they came for my skeet guns,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
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Old August 26, 2013, 02:20 PM   #46
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I skipped a few posts but I'll tell you what bothers me and it's not the beggar thing or the waste thing. It's a simple thing, they want me to be a member, I paid for a membership. But they continue to send me solicitations for new membership.

I am not stupid, I am not unaware that mass mailing campaigns are successful. It just pricks my ego that they don't know I am one of their members already. i am a vane individual. Maybe not to great fault, but at least when I am sorting through the mail

I opened the mail box and I have mail, someone knows I exist and I am worth contacting. Wait ... they want me to join? I am already a member, I gave them money, how can they not know that I am one of there guys?

The mail sucks, even when I get something it usually turns out It's something I really don't want. I do still manage to check my mail every day without mistake.

I like Santa better
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Old August 26, 2013, 03:17 PM   #47
Mike Irwin
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"It just pricks my ego that they don't know I am one of their members already."

New membership, or renewal?

I'm betting renewal.

Again, virtually every magazine and organization of which I've ever been a member has done that.

They like it when they get your money early.
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Old August 26, 2013, 04:48 PM   #48
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Again, virtually every magazine and organization of which I've ever been a member has done that.

They like it when they get your money early.
^^^^^

I receive NRA and ILA solicitations frequently to contribute money or upgrade my membership (perhaps because of, rather than despite, the fact that I am a life member). My hunting and firearms magazine subscriptions produce renewal solicitations regularly. It appears many of these come from a company (or perhaps multiple companies) that provide subscription/membership services to publishers/organizations. Not much different than continual email advertising from businesses, e.g., Cabela's, Bass Pro, Best Buy, etc.
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