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Old August 21, 2013, 11:39 PM   #76
JimmyR
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While 2 NDs in 36 years isn't HORRIBLE, especially for someone handling guns on a regular basis, 2 INJURIES should make him reconsider his role as a gun safety instructor.
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Old August 22, 2013, 09:13 AM   #77
Tom Servo
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While 2 NDs in 36 years isn't HORRIBLE, especially for someone handling guns on a regular basis, 2 INJURIES should make him reconsider his role as a gun safety instructor.
Yes, it is horrible. That's two more ND's than many folks have had in similar periods of time.
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Old August 22, 2013, 09:52 AM   #78
johnwilliamson062
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While 2 NDs in 36 years isn't HORRIBLE
One of the insurance seminars I went to back when in insurance looked at the rate of "close calls" to "accidents". The research had been done to show that in most industrial accidents dozens of close calls where no one was hurt b/c of sheer luck happened before large accidents. In this case one can easily see that most NDs are not going to result in a shooting. How many have people fessed up to here on the forum that did not result in a shooting? How many never talk about them?

Two NDs in 36 years isn't a number that absolutely terrifies me. If someone told me they had two NDs in 36 years I don't think I would automatically refuse to shoot with them. I find it very hard to believe that 100% of his NDs resulted in someone getting shot though. I am guessing he has a number more, especially after reading about the hayride shooting into the air story. For starters, if he was on the hayride and intending to shoot a 38 blank he was also absolutely careless about ear protection for those around him. Even if he was driving the tractor he was probably less than ten feet from the closest people.
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Old August 22, 2013, 10:12 AM   #79
Tom Servo
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I find it very hard to believe that 100% of his NDs resulted in someone getting shot though.
That's my thought as well. Most folks like that probably have more than a few "oopsies" they don't talk about.
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Old August 22, 2013, 06:13 PM   #80
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And here we go again:

http://www.wbtw.com/story/23221920/p...vannah-college

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A spokesperson for Savannah State says the campus officer was participating in a firearm training/demonstration exercise at the time.

The newspaper reported that the officer was showing new campus police officers the types of weapons used at the school. A college official told the Morning News the Glock should have not been loaded at the time.
Don't put all your safety eggs inside the "It's unloaded" basket.

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Old August 22, 2013, 06:30 PM   #81
Brian Pfleuger
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Gun safety instructor shoots student

That's why the 4 Rules are structured as they are. A single violation can not result in any more than needing new underwear. Even poor muzzle control can't hurt anyone IF your finger is off the trigger. Finger on the trigger can't hurt anyone IF the muzzle is controlled.

An injury requires cascading failures. First, you must not be respecting that that gun IS loaded. Second, you must have the gun pointed at something that you're NOT willing to destroy. Third, you must have your finger on the trigger when the muzzle is not pointing at an intentional/safe target.

Break the chain, anywhere, and you're still "safe" in the respect that no one can get hurt. Redundant safety. Short enough to remember, complex enough to require significant failures for a severe danger to arise.

This guy didn't have two ND/AD's in 36 years, he SHOT TWO PEOPLE in 36 years. That means he is very likely to be a habitual violator of the rules, not one at a time, multiple rules all at once. That makes him a menace, IMO.
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Old August 22, 2013, 06:53 PM   #82
Garycw
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Gun safety instructor shoots student

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwilliamson062 View Post
One of the insurance seminars I went to back when in insurance looked at the rate of "close calls" to "accidents". The research had been done to show that in most industrial accidents dozens of close calls where no one was hurt b/c of sheer luck happened before large accidents. In this case one can easily see that most NDs are not going to result in a shooting. How many have people fessed up to here on the forum that did not result in a shooting? How many never talk about them?

Two NDs in 36 years isn't a number that absolutely terrifies me. If someone told me they had two NDs in 36 years I don't think I would automatically refuse to shoot with them. I find it very hard to believe that 100% of his NDs resulted in someone getting shot though. I am guessing he has a number more, especially after reading about the hayride shooting i.
I wouldn't want to be around for the third ND that was published. Not to mention all the possible ones no one knows about.
Personally I've had one (1) in 40 years. Although I Knew it was loaded! Had it cocked and finger on the trigger. Hmmm wonder why it went off? What a surprise to me and a buddy sitting next to me. At least it was pointed in a safe direction out the open window facing a dirt bank in the country. Seems like I remember it had a hair trigger. Yea.. thats the one. The only thing hurt was a rabbit ear on the TV. I still have the pistol, shot hundreds of times and no more ND's
I wouldn't want to be anywhere around these instructors with them having a firearm in any circumstance!
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