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Old August 18, 2013, 10:48 PM   #1
Fusion
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What's going on with these primers?

I was testing some loads today in a gun I don't usually shoot. Something I noticed is that every round fired had what looked like a chip out of the primer. I didn't see any issues with the bolt face, so I'm confused. Here you can see the issue.




Anyone seen this before and know what's going on?
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Old August 18, 2013, 11:16 PM   #2
Lost Sheep
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Mystery. I love a puzzle!

Is it a chip or a dent? That is, is there metal missing out of the primer or is it just dented.

Is the mark always in the same orientation? That is, if you chamber the cartridge with the dash in the "30-06" always at the 12:00 o'clock position, is the mark always in the same orientation?

Is there anything on your boltface that could make such a mark? Particularly anything with that orientation to and distance from the firing pin?

What steps have you taken to discover if the mark is made before ejection from your action? What action are you shooting, by the way? Bolt action, falling block, sem-auto, etc?

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Last edited by Lost Sheep; August 19, 2013 at 01:03 AM.
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Old August 18, 2013, 11:33 PM   #3
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Looks like the primer is getting a small "ejector mark"...
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Old August 19, 2013, 06:19 PM   #4
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Your primers are extruding into the ejector cutout. Coupled with the flattened primers and the extrusion into the firing pin hole, I would call that a pretty stout load.
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Old August 19, 2013, 09:35 PM   #5
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I also think that load's too hot. Especially when the edge of the primer's very square and sharp; not radiused like normal maximum loads produce.

What's the recipie you're using?
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Old August 19, 2013, 09:42 PM   #6
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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Curious as to how many times that bass pictured has been reloaded & shot?
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Old August 19, 2013, 11:35 PM   #7
Fusion
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The brass is once fired. I bought the brass new as factory loads and this is their first reload.

I thought the primers looked flattened more than usual as well, but the weird thing is this was way under the max load. I tried a couple at the max load and they did look like they were backing out. The load was 49 grains of IMR 4381 an a Hornady 150 grain SP bullet which is a mid range load according to their manual. I did seat it a little longer than what the load data listed. I also tried mid range some loads with Varget and Nosler 150 grain BT bullets and the primers looked the same.
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Old August 20, 2013, 12:25 AM   #8
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Quote:
I did seat it a little longer than what the load data listed.
If your bullet is in contact with the rifling when chambered, that may cause a "midrange" load to be too hot.

Your primers have lost their radiused edge, the extractor appears to be making a mark on the primer, and the edge of the firing pin dent appears to have flowed into the firing pin hole: that's 3 hints that pressure is higher than it is supposed to be.

Then again, it's your gun, and you can beat it if you want to, for whatever reason.
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Old August 20, 2013, 02:33 AM   #9
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Just as a side note, Federal brass is known to be soft. It's been especially problematic for me in my .223 AR15. It has treated me a little better in my .280 bolt gun. Just something to think of...
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Old August 20, 2013, 07:19 AM   #10
MJFlores
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That's the ejector mark on the bolt face. A few things are also going on. It's a picture so cant really tell for sure but, it looks like high pressure by the slight crater around the firing pin strike and over all flattened appearance, yet it also looks like the primer pockets may be a bit oversize as it seems the primer backed out a few thousandths? You may have too heavy a load, in some brass with poor primer pockets.
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Old August 20, 2013, 09:58 AM   #11
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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I think you may have a few things going that may be the cause of your problem.

Quote:
but the weird thing is this was way under the max load.
49.0 grs of imr 4831 is way below any powder listings that I'm aware of. Your cartridge could be building to much internal pressure because of using too little amount of a slow burning powder.

Quote:
The load was 49 grains of IMR 4381 an a Hornady 150 grain SP bullet which is a mid range load according to their manual.
Who's manual are your referring too Sir?
My Speer #11 says 55.0 to 59.0 for imr-4831 and using 150 gr. bullet
again my older Hornady 3rd edition stat's are:
56.9 to 60.3 for the same.

Something really unusual.
IMR's Powder booklet and Hodgdon's web site doesn't even suggest IMR-4831 being used for your bullet weight.

And if using Varget it's suggested by IMR's web site to be measured:
47.0 to 51.0 and using a 150 gr. bullet.

Quote:
I did seat it a little longer than what the load data listed.
I would also suggest to seat your bullet to what is considered the proper OAL for any caliber. The stat's for your 30-06 are:
Min: 2.970 Max: 3.340

Shorting powder measurements and extended bullet length preformed on a 30-06 cartridge. I highly doubt your gain all that much tighter groupings. If indeed looking for a little additional accuracy I encourage you to try Neck sizing instead. You may see some improvement in your rifles groupings then

S/S
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Old August 20, 2013, 10:45 AM   #12
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Best guess: The load is light. Expect the primer it initially set back, then, as the case comes back, the expanded primer is is flattened and marked by the ejector. Is it a Remington? The load is not too heavy, or giving dangerously erratic pressures, because the case itself gets no ejector mark.
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Old August 20, 2013, 03:07 PM   #13
Mike Irwin
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What gun are you shooting, and what are your loading specifics?
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Old August 20, 2013, 06:57 PM   #14
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It a light loading. Same thread here > http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=726073
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Old August 20, 2013, 10:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
The brass is once fired. I bought the brass new as factory loads and this is their first reload.
You bought new factory loads, fired them, sized them and reloaded and fired them, right? To me that means they are fired twice. How did you set your resizing die to properly set the shoulder back the correct amount?

I have found excessive head space to cause flat primers when pressures are normal.

The second picture looks more like and indentation, not a high spot. If it was caused by high pressure extruding the primer into the ejector, it would be a high spot.

What type rifle are you shooting? Is the ejector the mauser type, or the Remington plunger type?
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