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Old August 17, 2013, 06:25 PM   #1
Metal god
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Getting ready to reload for the first time . got ?s

Hey My powder will finally be here on Tuesday after being on back order for 7 months . Well I've been waiting so long for the powder I think I have everything else I need and then some .

loading for 308

1 ) What COAL . I ask cus my lands/rifling is closer then the recommended 2.80" my Sierra book says . My COAL for 175gr smk is 2.750 and that puts the bullet just touching the lands . My 190gr smk COAL is 2.850 and that puts them just touching the lands as well . My question is where do I start ? I know what the max COAL is . Can I start there with the lightest load data or should you always start off the lands/rifling ?
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Old August 17, 2013, 11:38 PM   #2
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That doesn't sound right. By which I mean it doesn't sound very common.

Also not sure how a smaller shorter COAL touches the lands the same as a longer larger COAL.

How are you measuring your COAL?

How are you measuring "Just touching the lands"?
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Old August 18, 2013, 12:11 AM   #3
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With a once fired formed to the chamber piece of brass I neck sized just enough to hold the bullet firm but I can still push the bullet in and out by hand . I put the bullet in the case by hand so it would be sticking out way to much . I then slowly chamber the round to the point of a closed bolt . This seats the bullet to the lands/rifling . I then carefully remove the cartridge and measure the total length ( COAL ) of the round . ( this was a unprimed empty case )

I also put a bullet only in to the chamber and with a dowel pushed it up till it stopped at the lands/rifling . while keeping the bullet in place I inserted through the muzzle a one piece cleaning rod till it stopped on the tip of the bullet . I marked the rod at the muzzle then removed the bullet and inserted the bolt and closed it . Then I pushed the rod down to the bolt and marked it again at the muzzle . I then measured the distance between the two marks and got pretty much the same measurement as the above mentioned way .

That's how I came up with those numbers . The rifle is a 308 Savage model 10 and I hear the have very short throats . With this one that seems to be the case .

Hope that helps and if I did something wrong please let me know so I don't blow my face off .
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Old August 18, 2013, 09:20 AM   #4
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If you measure the length of several bullets you will notice that they vary by several .001". If you look at the very tips of hte bullets you will also notice a lot of deformation. Therefore you can't rely on COL. The bullet ogive measurements is a little more accurate.

We say start about 0.003" backed off the lands. Then find a good powder. Then reduce or lengthen the COL.

Also make certain that your max COL will feed from the magazine. A lot of time it is Mag Length that is the limiting factor.
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Old August 18, 2013, 10:51 AM   #5
JimDandy
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I would pick up one of the headspace tool thing-a-ma-bobs. They let you get a much more precise measurement, given your tight tolerances.

You're measuring two things .1 apart in size as the same size, when dealing with something you measure to .05 or less.
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Old August 18, 2013, 12:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
My COAL for 175gr smk is 2.750 and that puts the bullet just touching the lands . My 190gr smk COAL is 2.850
As stated above start off the lands. Most rifles will give best accuracy between .001 and .004 off the lands. Experimentation is the only way to know what works in your gun.
Quote:
Hope that helps and if I did something wrong please let me know so I don't blow my face off .
Any time you change anything; ( powder lot, bullet, primer, or depth of bullet seating that makes the case volume smaller) reduce your powder charge and work up the load again. That prevents big scary booms near your face
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Old August 18, 2013, 12:41 PM   #7
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I have no way to measure to the ogive so to make it simple I'll just start at 2.740 for the 175s and 2.840 for the 190s . does that sound right ? I can already tell I'm going to want a bullet seating die that has the micro meter adjustments
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Old August 18, 2013, 03:52 PM   #8
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That sounds like a good starting point. Let us know how it turns out.
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Old August 18, 2013, 04:33 PM   #9
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Since you don't have a comparator or a nifty headspace tool, I would measure the distance the same way you did, but use a bullet with a flat end (not a boat tail) and seat it backwards, maybe even smoke it with a match, then you can see exactly when it hits the lands. And there is definitely a 'sweet spot' for seating depth, just requires some trial and error.
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Old August 20, 2013, 04:18 PM   #10
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New question

I bought some once fired brass . Head stamp is WCC 06 NATO . I resized it trimmed and cleaned it all . It came out real good and out of the 250 I bought there were only 7 or so that needed to be thrown out .

I weighed each one and they all were with in 3gr of each other and 150 of them were with in 1gr of each other . I separated them in to 2 batches Batch 1 is with in 1gr batch 2 is within 1.5-ish gr

1) I'm looking to load long range match grade ammo . What is the max difference between weights can I go with no worries .

2) If I work up a load with full length sized brass . Can I use the same load data with that same brass once it's fire formed to my chamber and I only neck size it ? Or do I have to start all over again ? Everything will be the same except the brass will be fire formed to my chamber .
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Old August 20, 2013, 06:43 PM   #11
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I hope this proves helpful.

Let's address the COAL issue first.

You measured the OAL for ONE specific bullet ONLY--NOT across the board. Recommended COAL for .308 Winchester is 2.800 to 2.820 if you're using the 175 grain MatchKing. Your Savage should accept that quite well.

Second...be VERY aware that when you use military components you HAVE to adjust your load. Mil surp brass in 7.62 NATO (which yours is) is thicker than .308 brass. Use starting loads when loading military brass.

What kind of powder are you using? Just for information (and this load is safe in my rifles--a Savage 10FP, my Remington M40A3 clone and my M1A) I use 41.0 of Alliant RL15 under the 175 grain MatchKing, loaded to 2.800 COAL. Cases are trimmed to 2.000 even, and chamfered and deburred. I use Remington brass primarily--good stuff--but for accuracy I use Lake City Match brass. I also use either the CC! #34 primers or Winchester Large Rifle. Bugholes at 100 yards.
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Old August 20, 2013, 07:27 PM   #12
Metal god
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Quote:
You measured the OAL for ONE specific bullet ONLY--NOT across the board.
Yes I know and thank you for making sure . I have 175 , 190 smk . 178 A-MAX and 165 SST and they all have a different OAL .

Quote:
if you're using the 175 grain MatchKing. Your Savage should accept that quite well.
I just loaded a 175gr smk dummy round -no powder no primer to a OAL of 2.7990 . I had a hard time getting the bolt closed and now I can't get it open . Well it's lifted up but stuck . I'm assuming the bullet is jammed in the rifling and is what is keeping me from being able to pull the bolt back . So the 2.800 OAL for the 175gr smk does not work for my rifle but I already knew that . I'm new to this so I wanted to be sure .

EDIT: got the round out and started seating the bullet lower and lower till it chambered and extracted with ease . That OAL is 2.7480 .

Quote:
Second...be VERY aware that when you use military components you HAVE to adjust your load. Mil surp brass in 7.62 NATO (which yours is) is thicker than .308 brass. Use starting loads when loading military brass.
I do have a understanding of this and the fact that these will be my first reloads ever I will be starting at the starting loads no matter what of anything I use .

What about after I've already shot the Military brass once and only plan to neck size for the next group of reloads . Do I have to start all over again with the starting loads . Or can I use one of the loads that worked well with the brass full length sized ?

Quote:
What kind of powder are you using?
I don't remember . I'll update you when they get here . I know that sounds bad but I bought 4 different powders that were in my sierra book that were there recommended powders for the weights of bullets I have . The only one I know I did not get yet is the IMR 4064 cus that is still on back order .

The ones I know for sure off the top of my head are

Viht-N550 for the 165gr sst hunting , should be here today

Viht-N540 for the 175gr smk Accuracy , should be here today

IMR-4064 for the 190gr smk Accuracy , back ordered

and 2 others that should be here today . I want to say one is IMR-3031 but I forget . I should add the one or two of the powders I bought are to be used in my AR as well as the 308 . so I picked a powder that was in the loading data for both rounds . One of them is the IMR 3031 .I also have CFE-223 on back order for the AR . That will be 6 different powders for me to work with . I should find something that will work well out of all that .

EDIT : The other 2 are IMR-4350 and Power Pro 2000 MR
.
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Last edited by Metal god; August 21, 2013 at 08:16 AM.
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