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Old July 22, 2013, 09:17 PM   #1
Death from Afar
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M9 Drill- flicking decoker- safety while dealing with FTF

Hi All,

I love my M9, and it is a pistol I shoot very well with. Often, we will put some blanks in the magazines to train on a failure to eject, or a misfire.

Much as I love the M9, it is quite easy to sweep the safety/decocker onto safe when doing such a drill.

I was thinking "TAP- Magazine" "RACK- Slide" "CHECK- Safety".

Any thoughts on the method to use? What is taught by, say, the US military or LAPD?

Thanks.
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Old July 22, 2013, 10:53 PM   #2
BuckRub
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Glad you like it. I wouldn't have a SD pistol with a decocker if my funds to get another pistol weren't a problem. Too many things going on or to keep up with. Glocks- no decocker or safety, one in the tube so point then pull trigger. Needing your gun in a very bad way very quickly- again just point and pull trigger. Ain't for everyone but the way I like it. If I was carrying a revolver than it'd be the S&W model 642, again point and pull trigger. Simplicity works best. Dummy proof there's no need for all the gadgets, safety's , wondering if there's one in the Chamber or not. When things go bad usually they happen very quick or if not its all the same - point and squeeze trigger. Same every time.
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Old July 22, 2013, 11:16 PM   #3
Dragline45
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Quote:
Needing your gun in a very bad way very quickly- again just point and pull trigger. Ain't for everyone but the way I like it. If I was carrying a revolver than it'd be the S&W model 642, again point and pull trigger. Simplicity works best. Dummy proof there's no need for all the gadgets, safety's , wondering if there's one in the Chamber or not. When things go bad usually they happen very quick or if not its all the same - point and squeeze trigger. Same every time.
I never have the saftey on my M9 engaged, and the Beretta is perfectly safe to carry with the saftey off. It is a DA/SA so the first trigger pull is a long DA pull like a revolver. So like your preference, all you have to do is point and squeeze the trigger.

As far as the OP's initial concern, I have an M9A1 and have never accidentally engaged the saftey when racking the slide, I actually just fiddled around with mine for a bit to see if I could and I still wasn't able to. Maybe your decocker/saftey is loose? Although mine is less than a year old so it may not be broken in as much. Also what method do you use when racking your slide, do you use the overhand method or just pull straight back with your thumb and forefinger?

By the way how are the gun laws over there in New Zealand, is it fairly easy to obtain a license/permit? Also what type of availability of guns do you guys got, are you limited on what you can and cant have? Sorry for going off topic but I am just interested.

Last edited by Dragline45; July 22, 2013 at 11:30 PM.
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Old July 23, 2013, 12:36 PM   #4
pax
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DFA,

If you're finding that you're often engaging the safety while racking the slide, it's probably time to change your racking technique. I'm normally a big fan of the overhand rack, but it isn't best for the M9 because of the safely lever issue. Try using the pinch/slingshot instead, and see if that doesn't solve your problem.

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Old July 23, 2013, 02:08 PM   #5
Constantine
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And that's why I sold my PX4 Storm.

Quote:
I never have the saftey on my M9 engaged, and the Beretta is perfectly safe to carry with the saftey off. It is a DA/SA so the first trigger pull is a long DA pull like a revolver.
I did the same when I carried it. Carried that gun like I would a SIG or Hk.
Only issue is where the safety is. I like to put my guns through everything possible, as much as I can. I didn't like that...

I think, I could be wrong but I think they sell a dehorned version of that safety OP.
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Old July 23, 2013, 08:51 PM   #6
Dave Williams
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What pax said.
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Old July 23, 2013, 09:09 PM   #7
Koda94
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Buried near the end of this ~5min video Rob Pincus discusses the exact technique to rack an M9 without engaging the safety...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DTt_rq7...%3DDTt_rq7ikZ4
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Old July 23, 2013, 10:22 PM   #8
MLeake
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When I had PX4s, I modified them to G models.

If I had an M9 or 92, I would modify it to a G model.
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Old July 23, 2013, 11:44 PM   #9
JohnKSa
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Quote:
If I had an M9 or 92, I would modify it to a G model.
The 9X series Beretta pistols, including the M9, can not be modifed to the G configuration like the PX4 pistols can. I suppose there's some way to do the modification, but it would include some significant metal work on the slide. It can't be done by replacing parts unless you want to replace the entire slide with a G slide.

Unfortunately, if you want a Beretta 92/96 G, you pretty much have to buy one. Don't expect to buy an FS and modify it.
Quote:
...the exact technique to rack an M9 without engaging the safety...
Whether or not there's a technique that can be used to avoid engaging the safety is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. If I carry a gun that can be put on safe (accidentally or otherwise), I practice disengaging the safety as part of the presentation regardless of whether I plan to carry it safety on or off. I recommend that others do the same.

I suppose that there are entirely foolproof safeties that absolutely can't ever engage accidentally, but I don't know of any. If the safety CAN be engaged, it's best to assume that someday it WILL be engaged and practice so that when it happens it will be a non-issue.
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Old July 24, 2013, 07:11 AM   #10
45_auto
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Quote:
Any thoughts on the method to use? What is taught by, say, the US military or LAPD?
The US Military teaches that the very first thing you do if your M9 doesn't fire is to look at the safety then squeeze the trigger again. To me, that's a red flag concerning the operation of the firearm safety. I know of no other weapon where the first step in immediate action is to check the safety. I'm not a big fan of DA/SA either, so my FS92 (civilian M9) has been fired maybe 50 rounds in the 20 years that I've owned it.

US M9 Combat Training Manual for the M9 is online here, section 1-15 covers immediate action if your M9 doesn't fire:

http://www.ut.ngb.army.mil/campwilli.../fm3_23x35.pdf

Quote:
1-15. IMMEDIATE ACTION
Immediate action is the action taken to reduce a stoppage without looking for the cause.
Immediate action is taken within 15 seconds of a stoppage.
a. Ensure the decocking/safety lever is in the FIRE position.
b. Squeeze the trigger again.
c. If the pistol does not fire, ensure that the magazine is fully seated, retract the slide
to the rear, and release.
d. Squeeze the trigger.
e. If the pistol again does not fire, remove the magazine and retract the slide to eject
the chambered cartridge. Insert a new magazine, retract the slide, and release to chamber
another cartridge.
f. Squeeze the trigger.
g. If the pistol still does not fire, perform remedial action.
Don't take the Army manual as gospel, every pistol class that I've attended teaches immediate action as Tap-Rack-Bang no matter what you're shooting. For the M9 users, the instructors are always harping at them to be careful racking the slide and "Keep your Dingus up!". If your Dingus is down, it's not good!

Last edited by 45_auto; July 24, 2013 at 07:24 AM.
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Old July 24, 2013, 08:08 AM   #11
Backwoodsboy
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While in the USMC I served as an armorer and for 2 years I was stationed at the rifle range just south of Camp Lejeune. While stationed at Stone Bay, I also served as a rifle and pistol coach and regardless of what the manual stated every coach I knew taught the tap rack bang method. Years later I still use this method with my 92fs and never have a problem with hitting the safety.
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Old July 24, 2013, 12:05 PM   #12
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All of the US military branches don't follow the Army way.

OP, the problem you describe is just a characteristic of the M9/M92. As PAX said earlier, if you are experiencing this issue, the answer is pinching the slide from the rear. I taught this gun for about 15 years...in the military. I showed students the over hand method and the "pinch" where you grab from the rear with thumb and fore finger on the decocking lever to hold it in the up position.

Personally, I never had a problem using either.
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Old July 25, 2013, 04:08 PM   #13
motorhead0922
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This is precisely why I bought a Taurus 92 instead of a Beretta 92. The Taurus has the safety on the frame, and never goes where you don't intend for it to be.
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Old July 25, 2013, 08:41 PM   #14
raimius
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I learned on 1911s, so I did run into this problem with the M9. I found two ways to deal with the issue with some reliability.
1. Rotate your off hand as you rack so that you don't push the safety down as you rack.
2. As you punch out, flick up with your thumb. If you did engage the safety, you'll correct it there. I use this one. For me, it is more reliable, although slightly less efficient.
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