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Old July 12, 2013, 08:04 AM   #51
iraiam
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I shoot some pretty big hardware and will give you my 2 cents.

If you shoot from a bench use a gun rest that is tall enough so you can sit up straight at the bench and fire the weapon. If you have to crawl up on it to shoot it from the bench it will continue to beat you up.

If you shoot it prone, be sure to do it properly, one of my shoulder mounted howitzers was purchased from a man who broke is collar bone with when he fired it improperly from the prone position. One tip here is to be sure and tightly grip the fore end with your non trigger hand.

This also helps firing from the sitting position, hold the fore end of the stock TIGHT.
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Old July 12, 2013, 11:22 AM   #52
ColColt
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Quote:
If I were in your situation, that sucker would be goin' down the road and I'd be in the market for something like a 38/55 that would be fun to shoot.
I have a Winchester Legendary Frontiersmen in that caliber and it's a lot more fun to shoot than the 45-90. It's like a .22 compared to it. If I had any sense I would have stopped after the first couple rounds from Big Bertha but you don't want to drive 20 miles to the range and fire two rounds so, I tried to endure the pain. I paid the price later.

Rebarreling it doesn't sound like a good idea from what Old Stoney said but, I had put in a message Lucinda at Shiloh to ask about rebarreling it to 38-55 or 40-70 and the cost but haven't heard back yet. I think I would like the 40-70 as 38-55 seems like a waste of heavy barrel/rifle going to that caliber and I have one of those already. I may end up spending another $1k getting it shipped and rebarreled, however and that's not good.

i may be wrong and a wuss about this but I don't think this caliber/butt plate configuration was meant to be fired 20 times from the bench like a 30-06. Some may be able to do that but obviously not me. I wanted to sight it in and test loads and I can't do that with a 12 pound rifle standing up. There no way I'd fire a 50-110 from any position. That would be like a 460 Weatherby, probably or worse. As Clint once said, every man needs to know his limitations!

Quote:
This also helps firing from the sitting position, hold the fore end of the stock TIGHT.
I wasn't holding the rifle with the left hand at all. I had my left hand cupped around the rear bag like I was shooting a .222 Remington Varmint Rifle. I'm definitely not going to cut the stock. I'll try the LimbSaver on the butt in conjunction with the LeadSled. If that doesn't help I'm out of ideas. I was probably the one that created this problem by hunching over the rifle like a target rifle. Apparently you don't do that with a large bore bruiser like this one.

Last edited by ColColt; July 12, 2013 at 11:36 AM.
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Old July 12, 2013, 02:15 PM   #53
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ColColt,

I assume you are shooting the rifle with the sights that's on the rifle in the picture, open sights and aperture sight.
If so maybe using shooting sticks from a sitting, kneeling, or standing position may be better then trying to shoot groups from the bench.
At least it may not be as punishing to you and your groups may be just as good as they would be from the bench.

I have a couple of old Savage 99's, (I know they are peashooters compared to what you are shooting ) I tried shooting them from the bench with the sights that came on them, as that's the way I'll be hunting with them.
The 300 has a buckhorn rear sight the 250 being the oldest of the two has a small rear sight plus an old Lyman tang mounted aperture sight.

I was not impressed with my groups from the bench with either rifle but was amazed at the things I could hit with both rifles from field positions.
I tell you this as you may find the same with your Sharps.

Anyway, I certainly wish you the best in your endeavors.

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Old July 12, 2013, 02:56 PM   #54
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Looking at your blood hepatoma...it does not look like you have the gun seated back into your shoulder pocket enough. The gun stock should be mounted closer to you neck, otherwise, the gun is going to kick your butt.

I buy a Bag of Rags at an auto parts store, and stuff one of them under my shirt; in order to soften the recoil.

The blood thinner could be having a medical side effect, so I'd suggest softening up on the loads.
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Old July 12, 2013, 07:27 PM   #55
Boomer58cal
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When I started reading this thead I thought to myself... It can't kick that bad can it?

Well...I'm still ptetty young and dumb so I don't notice reciol much. My father however is getting up there in age(70+) and on blood thinners. He's not the type to complain about pain, but I have noticed over the last few years his .62 cal caplock has been kicking his butt. Well not as bad as those pictures, he still gets bruised pretty bad from those 900 grain bullets over 120gn of FFF.

I'd bet it's just part of getting old, the blood thinners or both.

Oh... There's nothing wrong with using a recoil pad. They work well and to heck with the manly men, shooting should be fun!!! Unless you enjoy pain you won't shoot that gun and that would be sad.

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Old July 12, 2013, 07:28 PM   #56
PVL
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Put a sandbag between the stock and your shoulder.
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Old July 13, 2013, 02:15 AM   #57
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Tough situation!

I have a Berreta O/U 12 ga.Its the 686 Essential,26 in bbls.It made light.There is air between the barrels.I think I was using 1 1/8 oz AA Pigeon loads for a dove hunt.I was working nights,worked Fri night,drove a long way,had no sleep,and for whatever other reasons,I was placing the butt on about the same place and my arm(missing all the birds) turned purple,too.
With those light loads,my shotgun is not a brutal kicker,I'm suggesting that part of the arm is not good for recoil.

While that curved butt may not be the best,at least its not a Crescent like a Hawken.

Right now you have a very nice rifle that may not be a good fit for you.To fit a modern rubber recoil pad..to say it nicely,would compromise the rifle's value.

Maybe Shilo would have an option of making you a new buttstock on a more Creedmore pattern with an original type shotgun butt.

I'd encourage a more upright shooting position,and tune your position to place the butt on your shoulder.Getting off bench is a good plan,and sitting with crossed sticks may be a good position.


I recently discovered the P.A.S.T recoil shield as others have suggested.The work very well.The 1/2 in thick is what I prefer.

Going to Fg may help a little.

I would expect you will have some flinch to get over.Too much recoil develops bad habits.

Keep it fun!
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Old July 13, 2013, 04:09 AM   #58
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To the original poster:

First, a bit of background. This is what I shoot:



This is a custom 45-120 Sharps, built by C. Sharps, from Montana.

Specs on the rifle: 30" heavy octagon barrel; long range rear sight, front spirit level, front sight with interchangeable apertures; double-set trigger, and (important part here) pistol gripped shotgun style stock. Done in a French Grey finish.





And, for the ammunition:



These were light bullet loads: 490 grain Lyman bullet. Now, I shoot three other bullets: 550 grain bore-rider with lube grooves, 550 grain spire point with lube grooves, and a 500 grain paper patched bullet. All of these are loaded with 120 grains of Goex 1F; compressed 0.60 inch, under a grease cookie (patched loads) and a sealer wad (.030 King's fiber wads, used for both sealer and overpowder wads.)

First thing--that stock you have will punch you. Consider getting a WIDER stock.

Next thing--it sounds like you are almost attempting to benchrest shoot the rifle. Don't do it! You want to pull that rifle in TIGHT. REALLY tight. Obviously, you so NOT want it to get a run at you.

I would also stop using the rear support bag. Put your support hand under the fore end, and use it to pull the rifle in tighter.

When I head to the range with my rifle, I usually shoot 40 to 60 rounds--because that's all the ammo I have with me at the time. Also, consider switching to 1F powder, or even 1 1/2F (Swiss) powder. It works very well indeed.

The idea of getting a PAST recoil pad is a good one. Best of luck to you--shooting BPCR is a ton of fun!
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Old July 13, 2013, 08:49 AM   #59
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Powderman, I believe that's the stock I would prefer.
By the way, that's one fine looking rifle, a true work of art.

Best Regards
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Old July 14, 2013, 11:06 AM   #60
ColColt
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Hunter-Those are the sights I used but I've since that picture changed the front sight to the #113 MVA sight with the bubble level and better aperture inserts. I was using a Magnum Past pad but obviously it did little good. I won't say I wasn't setting the butt right but didn't shoot it any differently than I have the 7mm Rem. Magnum in the past. I do believe my rear bag was too low as the heel of the rifle was probably only an inch or so from the concrete bench. However, if anyone has the book by Mike Venturino on Buffalo Rifles of the Old West you can see on page 12 where he is in a position at the bench just like I was and I'm sure he didn't suffer the bruises I did so, it's a mystery to me why I got so banged up. Hank Williams, Jr in that same book, page 234 is as low to the rifle as I was.

I can't or don't want to change the butt and ruin the value. I have ordered a LimbSaver pad to try and it fits my Browning BPCR perfectly but a tad large for the skinny 1 1/2" wide butt on the Shiloh but, I think it'll work. I'm going to try the Lead Sled Plus if that don't work.

Powderman-No way would I shoot your rifle...this one's bad enough and I was just using 76 gr of 2Fg with the 530 Postell bullet with a Walter's .030" wad over powder compressed about .250" and seated to the lower part of the drive band.

Quote:
Next thing--it sounds like you are almost attempting to benchrest shoot the rifle. Don't do it!
That's exactly what I was doing-just like I was shooting a 30-06 or .222 for that matter. The worse for recoil from the bench I've shot was a 7mm Rem. Mag with 175 gr bullet...until recently. It didn't bother me like this one. I have ordered several pounds of Swiss 1.5 that should be here next week. I only have Goex and KIK 2F currently.

Last edited by ColColt; July 17, 2013 at 08:40 PM.
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Old July 17, 2013, 08:43 PM   #61
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I've made the decision to have this heavy weight altered a bit by rebarreling it to 40-70 SS. I talked with Shiloh about it and if I keep the same barrel length, style(octagon) and weight I can keep my original fore end and not have to replace it. I think I'm going that route and be able to enjoy it more. They told me they were getting ready to cut some more 30" barrels next week so I'll get in quickly on the rebarrel job.
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Old July 17, 2013, 09:47 PM   #62
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I think a pad and one more range trip with some now holds before u rebarrel. Once its done it cannot be undone and you'll heal if you are correct. Seems such a shame. Thats just me.
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Old July 17, 2013, 11:56 PM   #63
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ColColt:

More weight would help--but changing that stock to one with a wider footprint will really help the recoil issue. Also, I note that you're using 2F. That's a faster burning granulation, and as such it will whomp the crud out of you. Try a few loads of 1F, and a recoil pad. Same charge weight and everything. You should notice a difference.
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Old July 18, 2013, 12:37 AM   #64
HiBC
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I like the 40-70.Its mild to shoot.Talk with your smith about using Hornady .405 Win brass.Its nearly identical.Trick is,a .405 reamer is not ideal.You nbrasseed a different leade.Might as well take advantage of the brass
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Old July 18, 2013, 03:04 PM   #65
ColColt
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I have to think the shotgun style butt wouldn't have done to me what the steel crescent did. It's like getting bucked off a horse...you get "gun shy" of trying it again. I debated taking it out one more time but after looking at these bruises that I have now, almost two weeks now, traveled down my arm to within two inches of my wrist and around the back of my forearm the more I want to swap that barrel. No sense in getting beat up like that. Shooting's suppose to be fun, not painful.

The rifle weighs 11 pounds 8 oz which is about as heavy as I care to lug around. I even bought a Lead Sled Plus in hopes of taming the recoil but after it arrived and I put it together I looked at it and thought how dumb to have to use such a device to go the range. I may never use it. I bought two 25 lb bags of shot to go in the tray as they recommended so between those and the weight of the Sled you're talking 65 pounds to put on the bench in conjunction with the rifle. I also bought a LimbSaver and while it fits my Browning 45-70 perfect, it wont fit the curved butt plate of the Sharps very well.

i bought and received yesterday several pounds of Swiss 1 1/2 to try but think I'll just use it in the 45-70 and the 40-70SS when I go with the rebarrel. I hate doing that and feel disappointed in having to do so but I see little alternative. I doubt it will make me look like a truck hit me like the 45-90 has. They told me I could keep the 45-90 barrel to just let them know. Shiloh recommended the 30-40 Krag brass for the 40-70SS.
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Old July 18, 2013, 04:02 PM   #66
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ColColt,

You are right shooting should be enjoyable; if you want to have your rifle barreled to a different caliber I can think of no reason why you should not.

I do think you should keep your other barrel, after all you paid for it.
I can't understand a company keeping parts that a customer has paid for, the part or parts is not the companies to keep.

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Old July 18, 2013, 04:11 PM   #67
ColColt
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They did give me the option of keeping it which I will. Who knows, if I get back up to 190 lbs instead of the 145 I am now I might be able to withstand the pounding from the 45-90. I'd have the barrel to try out in that case but I'm not looking to gaining any.
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Old July 20, 2013, 10:00 AM   #68
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Drop the weight of that bullet. That will reduce the recoil. I find that the 530 grain in 45-120 is quite stout. The 405 grain is more pleasant to shoot. You may want to drop to 300 grain.
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Old July 21, 2013, 11:02 AM   #69
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Get one of these. Rand Elite Recoil Shield. They are worth their weight in gold and really work.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/shoulder_...s_pr-4019.aspx

I use mine for not only my BPCRs but my other heavy hitters also, (458 Win, 375 H&H, 416 Rigby) plus I use them under my shooting jacket when shooting my steel but plate Vintage Military rifles.

Shooting is suppose to be fun, this recoil shield puts the fun back into the heavy hitters.

PLUS they are legal for use in the CMP's vintage rifle games, where the add on recoil pads aren't.

They are comfortable, and you don't notice you're wearing them until you find the lack of bruises some of those pictures show.
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Old July 21, 2013, 11:44 AM   #70
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have you tried a shooters jacket? yes they would be miserable in the summer but a lot of the guys out here that shoot comp swear by them. you could also try trail boss powder. it simulates black powder and it is very light recoiling in everything I've tried with it.
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Old July 24, 2013, 05:16 AM   #71
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We've seen a lot of opinions here over your problem, and I think you are probably taking the best approach in my opinion. Our guns are meant for fun and if they hurt us or if we have to go to unusual lengths to be able to shoot them....why bother? Your 40/70, or even a 40/65 would be a joy to shoot in that heavy rifle and you wouldn't have to carry pads, sleds, shot and all that other stuff to the range with you and grit your teeth when you pull the trigger.
I would suggest making sure of all arrangements with Shiloh beforehand. If you even ship it to them in a gun case, you will have it returned to you with a bill for it's shipping. Regardless of the case you send it in, they will sell you one of theirs for the return shipment. Shipping can add a lot of expense with them and you can figure on about 200 bucks in that dept. before you are done.
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Old July 26, 2013, 10:01 PM   #72
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ColColt,
Thank you for starting an interesting thread.

My father developed a formula for parabolic taper in a hydraulic cylinder for constant recoil force over a distance.

I figured out that recoil pads distribute recoil over time, area, and shape:
a) Time takes a thick pad to slow the rifle down slowly.
b) Area takes a tall wide pad.
c) Shape takes a pad soft enough to comply with the shoulder shape.

Pain threshold is ~ 20 psi on the skin. We need enough recoil pad to stay below 20 psi everywhere, and we can shoot all day.

The best I can do is the largest Limbsaver grind to fit, and then I do not grind it.


same image as below link
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Limbsaver recoil Butt pads gone wild gamma 5-17-2012.jpg (62.0 KB, 89 views)
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Old July 26, 2013, 10:23 PM   #73
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Big gun

Nuff said.
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Old July 27, 2013, 12:33 AM   #74
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Jimmie Crickets, Wyosmith, is that a 1 bore?


Like a lot of other posters I wouldn't give up on the .45-90 quite yet.

I'd follw all the advise about lighter loads shoulder pads etc.
You also might want to look at shooting sticks instead of bench rest. Once you're off the bench recoil seems much less.
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Old July 27, 2013, 12:41 AM   #75
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Hey Buzz.
Nope, it's a 2 bore.
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