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Old July 14, 2013, 04:50 PM   #51
mykeal
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Amen.
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Old July 14, 2013, 05:26 PM   #52
LeadZinger
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Question??

IS EVERYONE HERE HAVING FUN OR WHAT???

Seems like all of our "two cents worth" has been effected by inflation - must be up to fifty cents by now.

Would not be surprised if writer of OP decided to take up archery! If nothing else this thread illustrates the exteme interest and passion of the BP community. Glad to be a member.
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Old July 14, 2013, 05:36 PM   #53
bedbugbilly
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OMG! Now you guys have even gotten me confused! I learned a lot though . . . and here for years I've been a thinkin' that the only C & B was a '51 Navy.
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Old July 15, 2013, 03:17 AM   #54
Bill Akins
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Hawg and Mykeal, instead of criticizing me for my making what you think are too long and detailed of posts (even though my post was no doubt helpful to the OP asking for recommendations), why don't you instead stick to the subject the OP was asking recommendations for, and give him some more info that can further help him decide which 1st black powder revolver he should buy, instead of hijacking his thread via attacking and criticizing me for no good reason and thus diverting the thread away from what the OP was asking advice for.

Further, Hawg and Mykeal, if you think it is such an easy and simple question to answer, then I challenge you both to give a simple and short answer to the OP's original posted question of which black powder revolver he should buy first. And since you think it's such an easy and simple question, then you should have an easy and simple answer for him that should take no more than three sentences....right?

After all, you claim it's a simple question so a very short and simple answer should suffice right? Make sure in those three sentences you point out about different model BP revolvers in their categories like I did in my post. Point out outstanding features, positives and negatives of all those different categories of BP revolvers and compare the same revolver made by different manufacturers, and then give the OP your reasons for you suggesting what his first BP revolver should be. You should be able to answer a simple question with a simple three sentence answer that includes all that shouldn't you? Okay, let's see it. Or would you prefer to ignore the OP's subject and questions and instead continue to hijack his thread by just criticizing me for no good reason?

In the meantime, I would prefer to keep on the OP's subject track, and continue to help the OP to gain enough info/knowledge concerning his question of what BP revolver he should buy first.

NR5P, In addition to the Uberti steel frame or stainless 1858 Remington .44 that I suggested you might buy first, I'd also like to tell you about the Euroarms Rogers and Spencer in .44 caliber. It shares a lot of features of the Remington, in that it is also a closed frame revolver. In fact from a distance it greatly resembles the 1858 Remington. It also has more material removed from the rear of the cylinder around the nipples, so there is more space around the nipples and it is the easiest black powder revolver to gain access to the nipples to cap. That is a point for the R&S against the Remy.

So the Rogers and Spencer has a closed frame like the Remy, but the cylinder of the R&S does not remove as easily as the Remy, so that is one point for the Remy against the R&S. The R&S has a loading lever not exactly like, yet similar to the Whitney (or the Whitney copy the Spiller and Burr) which is also similar to the type used on the Ruger Old Army BP revolver. I can't see any pro nor con regarding the loading lever of the Remy against the loading lever of the R&S, just pointing out that they are different and I find the R&S loading lever very visually appealing. To illustrate the similarity between the R&S loading lever and the loading lever of the steel frame Whitney (or it's copy the brass frame Spiller & Burr), compare this below pic's brass framed Spiller & Burr loading lever to the one on the further down pic of the stainless Rogers & Spencer.



Adjustable sighted Euroarms, Rogers and Spencers are used in international BP revolver shooting competitions because of their great accuracy. That is a big point for the R&S. And although I personally prefer the 1860 Colt clones as being the ultimate most esthetically pleasing to my eye, I would have to say the Rogers and Spencer is more pleasing esthetically to my eye than the 1858 Remington. To me there's just something more appealing visually to the Rogers and Spencer than there is to the 1858 Remington.

Non adjustable sighted Rogers and Spencers are also just as historically accurate as non adjustable sighted 1858 Remingtons. The Rogers and Spencer is also available in stainless as is the 1858 Remington.

The Rogers and Spencer is not quite as plentifully found on Gunbroker and other auctions sites, (although there is always one or two for sale pretty much at any given time on gunbroker), and when you do find one it is usually around $100.00 more than a comparable 1858 Remington. So price wise the 1858 Remy is usually less expensive than the R&S, but the R&S would (arguably) probably be more accurate. At least the international shooting teams think so.

So considering everything above, in addition to the 1858 Remington, I'd also recommend the Rogers and Spencer would also be an excellent candidate for you to look into for your 1st black powder revolver.

Here's a pic of a Rogers and Spencer in stainless.



And here's a link to a page that will show you a lot of pics of the Rogers and Spencer. Just click on any of the pics you see, and it will take you to a page where that pic is larger. Then on the right side of that page, click on "visit page" and it will take you to the writeup concerning that picture. Good way to learn about the subject gun by googling it this way. Here's that link.....
http://www.google.com/search?q=Roger...w=1270&bih=678







.
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"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".

Last edited by Bill Akins; July 16, 2013 at 07:28 PM.
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Old July 15, 2013, 03:22 AM   #55
Doc Hoy
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Dag, Bill...

What are you doing at 4:00 am? Getting ready for work?

BTW, I get to Saint Leo once or twice a month but still can't find the time to drive over to Hudson.

One of these days....
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Old July 15, 2013, 03:45 AM   #56
Bill Akins
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Hi there Doc. Nope, I'm self employed so I can keep whatever hours I want.
Since I've had my spine operated on twice before with titanium insert cages in it, I know the pain I am in is a bulging disk (again). So I couldn't sleep and that's why I'm up. Also going to the doctor's this morning since the shot he gave me didn't help calm down the sciatic nerve any. Hopefully he will prescribe me an MRI and some Xrays. Been to this rodeo before. Discectomy surgery may be in my near future (again for the third time). The pills and shots aren't doing anything to alleviate the pain going down my left leg. So pretty hard to sleep might as well be up.

Doc, the next time you get over to St Leo college, I'm not that far away. Give me a call when you are going next time so we can get together and shoot off a few rounds in the back yard.



.
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"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".
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Old July 15, 2013, 03:52 AM   #57
Doc Hoy
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Sorry for the problems, Bill

I agree on the R & S but I am no fan of the looks of the Spiller and Burr.

Looks too primitive. Plus...I don't own one. That is good reason to not like them ;o)

I don't own a LeMat or a Starr and I don't like those either. Now once I see a good deal on one, I will start liking them.

Best of luck at the "saw bones"
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Old July 15, 2013, 04:08 AM   #58
Bill Akins
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Thanks for the well wishes Doc. I agree with you that the Whitney and its copy the Spiller and Burr have a primitive looking frame to my eye too. Too square with no streamlining and doesn't have the nice step down on the frame like the 1858 Remy and the Rogers and Spencer both have. Plus although the loading lever of the Whitney and Spiller and Burr are similar to the Rogers and Spencer, they don't have that large visually appealing lug at the pivot point like the Rogers and Spencer has, and looks kind of too slim and fragile on the Whitney and the Spiller and Burr.

I've been keeping an eye out for a stainless Rogers and Spencer for a good price. But all the stainless ones I see are between $400.00 to $500.00 on average. But I'll eventually find a good deal on one. But what I really want to get first before the R&S is a good deal on an Uberti 1866 Remy revolving carbine with the steel frame (not the brass frame one from Armi Sport).




.
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"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".

Last edited by Bill Akins; July 15, 2013 at 05:06 AM.
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Old July 15, 2013, 04:22 AM   #59
Doc Hoy
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Check the Gunbroker...!!!

There is one which is mislisted.

I think I searched "cattleman"

I'll get back to you.
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My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. Thomas Jefferson
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Old July 15, 2013, 04:27 AM   #60
Doc Hoy
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Here it is....

289.00 right now with coupla days left

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=352460020
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Old July 15, 2013, 04:38 AM   #61
Bill Akins
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Thanks Doc. Tip O the hat. Threw a bid on it.




.
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"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".
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Old July 15, 2013, 05:20 AM   #62
Doc Hoy
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Bill,

We have way too much time on our hands.
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Old July 15, 2013, 06:00 PM   #63
mykeal
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Here's the question:
Quote:
Any recommendations?
Two words. Doesn't get any simpler than that. He didn't ask for 'the best', or 'the prettiest', or 'the most authentic', just 'recommendations'.

Here's the answer: Ruger Old Army.

Again, doesn't get any simpler. One recommendation. No discussion of the entire history of black powder revolvers, just a simple recommendation. Some will agree, some will disagree. Is it the best 'first' bp revolver for the OP? I have no way of knowing that. But, he didn't ask me that, did he?

By the way, Bill, what time is it?
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Old July 15, 2013, 08:27 PM   #64
BirchOrr
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mykeal...

... I must agree.



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Old July 16, 2013, 02:11 AM   #65
Bill Akins
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Quote:
MyKeal wrote:
Here's the question:

Quote: NR5P wrote:
"Any recommendations?"
Mykeal wrote:
Two words. Doesn't get any simpler than that. He didn't ask for 'the best', or 'the prettiest', or 'the most authentic', just 'recommendations.

Here's the answer: Ruger Old Army.

Again, doesn't get any simpler. One recommendation. No discussion of the entire history of black powder revolvers, just a simple recommendation. Some will agree, some will disagree. Is it the best 'first' bp revolver for the OP? I have no way of knowing that. But, he didn't ask me that, did he?

Mykeal, you are incorrect. The OP did not just ask a two word question of "any recommendations?". But even if he had only asked that one question, it is not a simple question because asking for "any recommendations?" does not constrain people's answers does it? And that doesn't mean I shouldn't give him a rather detailed crash course on the main BP models and a detailed explanation of why I would recommend this model or that model.....does it?

Of course it doesn't. So why do you and Hawg take it upon yourselves to criticize me when I give the OP a comprehensive detailed answer? The only logical answer is....that you are both out of line in doing so and in fact engaging in cyber-bullying for no valid reason.

Let's examine why you are wrong Mykeal and show that the OP did not just ask one (two word)...."any recommendations?" question, as you incorrectly stated he did, when in fact the OP actually asked two direct questions, not one.

Quote:
NR5P wrote:
Can I go wrong with any of the brands? I'm not married to a certain caliber either, I suppose .44 is the most common. I do want a replica bp revolver just because of the fact that it's not considered a "fire arm" in Texas(I've got a chl but you never know when that can come in handy). Any recommendations?
So as we see above, the OP actually asked two questions. His first question asks if he can go wrong with any of the brands. In order to answer that you have to give him reasons that can go into some detail, such as why I prefer the Uberti 1858 Remy over the Pietta 1858 Remy (both of which I have owned).

His second question that asks for "any recommendations?", does not constrain me from giving him recommendations backed up with detailed reasons why I recommend or do not recommend any certain brand or type of revolver. Does it?

So as we see you are wrong in stating that the OP only asked one question and you and Hawg are both wrong in criticizing me for my detailed posts that I posted trying to help the OP gain sufficient knowledge so he can make an informed decision as to what ONE revolver he should buy, (because the OP said that would probably be his only BP revolver).

So again, neither you nor Hawg had any reason whatsoever to criticize me for anything. Logically we can only deduce from this that both you and Hawg were being childish and criticizing and picking at me for no valid reason. There is no rule at this site as to how long or how short a person's post can be. So now I would appreciate it if you would both stop and act adult and keep this thread on its rightful track concerning the OP's original subject and his TWO questions rather than criticizing and cyber-bullying me for no valid reason.

I'm getting tired of it. You have criticized me now several times for no valid reason in this thread, and so has Hawg in both his statements of: "Bill do get long winded don't him? " and again when Hawg said:"Jeezus Christ on a stick." making that nonsensical statement concerning my post and you agreed with him by your saying: "Amen".

Is it yours and Hawg's agenda and goal to try to drive me away from this site and to make me feel unwelcome at this site by giving me a hard time by criticizing me for the length of my posts for no valid reason, when all I have tried to do is to be helpful and give information and advice to a BP newbie that he asked for?

I ask that the moderator please step in if either you or Hawg or any others in this thread continue doing that non productive vein of cyber-bullying and criticizing me for no valid reason other than the length of my posts, when I am taking my time to give knowledge and advice to a newbie seeking advice, and simply because you want to act childish and criticize me for the length of my posts. I ask politely that it stop. It does not make me feel welcome and it sure does not make me feel appreciated for my efforts when I am treated like that. At this point now, it isn't funny and it isn't joking. It is childish, offensive and completely unnecessary. It has crossed over the line into cyber-bullying. Yes I have a thick skin and yes I have a sense of humor, but I am tired of this and shouldn't have to endure it in the first place.

To make matters worse on your end Mykeal, I even disproved what you incorrectly stated in your last post that the OP had only asked one (two word) question when in fact the OP had asked two separate questions. But it shouldn't matter if he HAD only asked that one question, and I HAD answered just one question in detail to try and help him out with knowledge and advice.


Now let's get back to what the OP originally asked for information on and keep this thread on track.



.
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"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".

Last edited by Bill Akins; July 16, 2013 at 09:06 AM.
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Old July 16, 2013, 12:43 PM   #66
Fingers McGee
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So, just out of morbid curiosity Bill, what congressional district do you represent? Your powers of obfuscation and pedagogy are such that you should be in Congress.
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